For all those who have wondered why mansplaining is even a thing

[FastidiaBlueberry]

I think this article explains quite well, the concept of mansplaining and why it's so bloody irritating.

It's often said that it's "explaining something while being a man". Not quite.

Happy reading.

www.motherjones.com/media/2012/08/problem-men-explaining-things-rebecca-solnit

"David Cameron looks as though he's been carved out of Spam. That's a disadvantage."

Just goes to show, even if you look like you're carved out of spam, with that level of privilege you can still find yourself Prime Minister!

You're right FoodUnit!

I'm advised that like most Old Etonians, he has a sort of easy charm about him, and he can get on with most people. He has that sort of oleaginous air about him.

I went to a boarding school, and visiting teachers would often comment how confident and self-assured boys were, and how politely we express interest.

If they stayed they learnt what a bunch of confident liers we were, and how casually cruel we were to each other. But very self-reliant.

I think I like the Scalzi article. Problem is , a lot of the gaming references go right over my head. If I get his drift, is he saying the same thing as Louis CK, here?

FoodUnit yes, it is extremely frustrating that a man says what women have been saying for years and years and suddenly opens up men's eyes to what's going on - I quite agree.

BUT since it is true that men listen more to other men (even talking about things like privilege, it seems) without getting their hackles up, then I like to point to "The Lowest Difficulty Setting There is" when men ask me "how do I be a good feminist ally?"

Scalzi is aware of his privilege and uses it to make other men aware of theirs. It's frustrating that it takes a man saying it to make other men listen, OHGODYES, but it also makes me think: hey liberal d00ds who think you're all so progressive, this is what Scalzi is doing to be a decent ally. What are YOU doing?

And so, I like it.

[ramblerambleramble]

"I just wonder what a conversation would be like with Cameron. Maybe not as Prime Minister but in a social gathering?"

I'm sure it would depend who he was talking to. With ol' mate Bozzo I'm sure he'd let down his guard and crack jokes about the tastelessness, laziness, worthlessness, ugliness, smelliness of the plebs, and have lots of disparaging nicknames for the electorate and 'final solution' style jokes about what to do with them, for others he'd probably be a bit cautious. He's probably got lots of practiced thoughtful and 'listening' faces while he stifles his boredom.

namechange yes, I think he is saying something similar.

I think Scalzi really nails something here:
"And maybe at this point you say, hey, I like a challenge, I want to change my difficulty setting! Well, here?s the thing: In The Real World, you don?t unlock any rewards or receive any benefit for playing on higher difficulty settings. The game is just harder, and potentially a lot less fun. And you say, okay, but what if I want to replay the game later on a higher difficulty setting, just to see what it?s like? Well, here?s the other thing about The Real World: You only get to play it once. So why make it more difficult than it has to be? Your goal is to win the game, not make it difficult."

He says "life is harder and potentially a lot less fun" if you're not a straight white male. He actually says that! Not that women/feminists are oversensitive, looking for things to be offended about, overthinking it, whatever. But that their lives are harder and potentially a lot less fun.

Similar to when Louis CK says in your clip "If you're white and you don't want to admit that it's great you're an ASSHOLE!" - basically, denying your privilege makes you an arse. Basic fact of human existence to my mind, but really hard to get across.

Yes blackcurrants I agree. I think it is helpful to have allies, though there can also be the kind that do it for the BJ if you know what I mean.

I also think Robert Jensen and Jackson Katz are great to link to.

It does sadden me though, that many women and men (especially when they are new to feminism) seem to reject outright/not grasp things that are expressed by someone with a vagina.

Hey ho, we'll get there in the end though

With ol' mate Bozzo

I've read Cameron and Bozzo loathe each other.

Oleaginous sounds about right. Like being rubbed in the face with...Spam, to a soundtrack of the worst mansplains ever.

blackcurrants
hey liberal d00ds who think you're all so progressive

Smile, if you're saying that to me pardner...

I don't think I've ever tried to be a good feminist ally; as far as I can I try and be no group's ally.

Most groups, be they misogynists, football supporters, train spotters, the French, the Americans and particularly white middle-class Englishmen are unutterably awful.

I do, however, like people. If I can learn to treat people better by listening to a group, I'll swallow my distaste for the particular SIG. In this case, I'm hoping to improve the way I engage with 50% of the population by listening to all those "Feminists".

That group used to get my back up by "whining" about privilege. I read something on a feminist blog, that pointed me to realise what my game settings were. Lightbulb. It wasn't whining.

I think it is helpful to have allies, though there can also be the kind that do it for the BJ

"I've read Cameron and Bozzo loathe each other." That's warming to hear - they are hated right up to their faces, rather than from just a distance the way I hate them.

"Oleaginous sounds about right. Like being rubbed in the face with...Spam, to a soundtrack of the worst mansplains ever."

OneMoreChap I'm glad you think believe me, it is nauseating to witness

Interesting article. I work with a couple on mansplainers - one who I have had to complain to management about, because he took "I know everything" to a new level, by deciding that he could opine on my team's work, without actually knowing anything about it (but he thinks he does, because he's awesome)

Nauseating to witness I can imagine. Creepy in a sort of "begging" way.

OneMore - not saying that to you, believe me! I don't know a thing about you, and wouldn't presume to know anything about your levels of liberalness, progressiveness, or indeed d00dliness!

In my life I come into contact with a lot of leftyactivist men who are sexist and don't like their sexism being pointed out. Or, to rephrase, men who think they are right-on and therefore right with the world, and want to continue being sexist while they save the polar ice caps, whales, economy, whatever, without anyone inconveniently stopping them from doing so by (shrilly, hysterically, whinily) insisting on being treated like a human being while in possession of a uterus.

This illuminatingly endemic in the American Atheist movement at the moment: a group that is full of men who are terribly pleased with themselves about their anti-authoritarian stance, and their dedication liberation from theocratic oppression is having a shitfit at the suggestion that they do something as basic as adopt anti-harassment policies to stop people creeping other people out at conventions. Because that would be admitting they have a sexism problem. Which evidence suggests (and the shitfit provides more evidence!) that they really do.

I was thinking of that sort of thing.

Foodunit here's hoping we will get there in the end. I see progress around me, even if it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back sorta thing.

"Nauseating to witness I can imagine. Creepy in a sort of "begging" way."

No, its more seeing how they expect so much praise for just turning up (which they do get from a load of excessively grateful females that have not shaken off notions of male=superior therefore we are SO SO SO SO SO SO LUCKY to have a sire on board- puke). The way they smile exaggeratedly, thinking to themselves 'Yeah, u-huh, I am da man, look at all these ladies loving da magic'.. Seriously vomit inducing.

namechangeguy ^"I think I like the Scalzi article. Problem is , a lot of the gaming references go right over my head. If I get his drift, is he saying the same thing as Louis CK, here? www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY"^

Yes (just watched the clip) it is that same thing, but I must say I found it upsetting to watch because its true , and seeing someone gloating about the lack of injustice in their lives because of their privilege- even if done knowingly/ironically, still hurts.

So I prefer the Scalzi article because there's empathy in it.

Mansplaining/whitesplaining:
The meteoric rise and mercurial success of Michael Moore spouting 'his' 'radical' arguments and 'insights'?

Stopped reading after this post. Summed up the thread and what I expected as soon as I saw the title perfectly for me.

SuperB0F Wed 29-Aug-12 11:14:36

I think the ultimate irony is actually demonstrated by this thread: mansplaining being mansplained to women.

FoodUnit, I'd love women only threads as well. Alas, will never happen as is the nature of forums. Anyone who wants to post, can.

radfem alert

Morning Lurking. I would respect a women-only thread if it was requested in the OP. What would be the advantages and disadvantages of such a thread, in your opinion?

Blackcurrants your post sums up the whole reaction to the Assange/Sweden debacle, I think.

Evening Namechange (time zones )

Do you mean for me personally, or in general? Because I can only really answer that sort of question for myself I think.

Yes Lurking, for you personally.