For all those who have wondered why mansplaining is even a thing

[FastidiaBlueberry]

I think this article explains quite well, the concept of mansplaining and why it's so bloody irritating.

It's often said that it's "explaining something while being a man". Not quite.

Happy reading.

www.motherjones.com/media/2012/08/problem-men-explaining-things-rebecca-solnit

TunipTheVegemal Wed 29-Aug-12 12:50:32
The problem many feminists have with 'cis' is that it doesn't simply mean 'not trans'. It comes from the Latin prefix 'cis-' meaning 'on the same side', the idea being that your physical sex and internal gender identity are 'on the same side'. Many feminists believe that there's no such thing as a natural gender identity - gender is a hierarchy imposed upon us by the patriarchy. So to accept the term 'cis' makes a nonsense of my beliefs about gender.

My knowledge of cis and trans originally is from chemistry at or before first degree level. So surely trans means your physical sex and internal gender identity are 'on the other side'?

Many feminists believe that there's no such thing as a natural gender identity - gender is a hierarchy imposed upon us by the patriarchy. So to accept the term 'cis' makes a nonsense of my beliefs about gender.

Interesting; is it your view that transexualism is a patriarchal construct, aimed at the oppression of women? What's your take on gender re-assignment surgery?

Yes, trans=opposite sides, cis=on the same side.

I don't think we should derail this thread into a big discussion about trans; I wanted to answer your question about cis as I thought it could be done without going off into a big tangent.

I would have thought that you, of all people, would be more willing to listening to what women are saying to you; instead of assuming you know everything there is possibly to be about being a woman

Ah, Enlightenment dawns......

"Mansplaining" is a word to be used only by The Right Sort Of Feminists to denigrate Other Feminists and The Rest who disagree with The Truth.

You are not debating, or arguing, or disagreeing with The Truth - no, you are Mansplaining.

Which of course these Proper Feminists cannot do, so ergo can never be guilty of the heinous sin of Mansplaining, no matter how pompous, pious or patronising they are.

Whatmeworry

Looks to me like a man could be guilty of both "mansplaining" and being patronising.

'Ah, Enlightenment dawns......'

Indeed .

Gosh, there are some very snide people on this thread. Certainly, Kim, there are very many women who are socially annoying too. But the particular sort of overbearing and patronising behaviour Kritiq describes is, in my experience, almost invariably the preserve of men (not all men by any means, but quite a few men) and it's that that is under discussion here.

I agree with Mooncup.

And the key is, isn't it, that this behaviour isn't derived from a personality trait but attitudes acquired because of male privilege and cultural attitudes. So a man who is naturally quite diffident in a group of other men, would become overbearing and 'mansplain' to women because he was conditioned/indoctrinated/whatever to perform that role.

Does that make any sense?

I think that's it really Eldritch.

I can't imagine my FIL 'helpfully' explaining to my DH about different types of paint. He did it to me because I'm a woman - the fact that I am a woman who has painted more walls than FIL has had hot dinners, counted for nothing.

Would mansplaining be like all the times my father patiently explained that things like pmt and menstrual cramps were sociotal constructs caused by the fact that modern western women don't have enough babies.

Or my grandfather explaining to a room full of active women, in front of his sporty wife, that women can't play sports like football because it will make us infertile

Am I the only woman that is surrounded by mansplaining men? I do know a few men that show the caution and sensitivity to have a truly two-way exchange of a conversation with women, but they are rare as hen's teeth. I even have to periodically haul my DH up over it even though he understands.

FoodUnit, it seems like you are! It must be rotten for you to be surrounded by such rude people. Do you find that they are all of a certain age/generation?

As for your husband - how can anyone keep making the same mistake over and over? How does he analyse his own behaviour when you pull him up on it? If my wife pulled me up on this I would do my damndest to change my ways. Does he think it is acceptable? Does he only do it to women?

When I said "Am I the only woman that is surrounded by mansplaining men? " namechangeguy I think it would be obvious that a man cannot possibly answer this question.

Of course DH gets it and alters his behaviour. But old habits die hard.

To clarify this "I think it would be obvious that a man cannot possibly answer this question." further.

Look at it. I asked "Am I the only woman?" and in the world billions of women exist. As a man, taking your scant evidence from your interpretation of a few women and men's opinions on a MN thread, feels qualified to speak for those billions of women, each with their own lived reality, to answer my question.

Herein lies the mansplain, since it is:

a) Smug
b) Overestimating the value of your contribution/evidence
c) Belittling of me, a woman- suggesting the 'no it is just you' isolation tactic men use to undermine female confidence.
d) Dominating - since no women actually answered me and you summarised in advance.

Think about your impulse to answer this question namechangeguy and you will understand how easy it is to do it without realising, and you'll be less judgemental about my DH. Tend to your own shortcomings!

FoodUnit
I do know a few men that show the caution and sensitivity to have a truly two-way exchange of a conversation with women, but they are rare as hen's teeth.

As a man, taking your scant evidence from your interpretation of a few women and men's opinions on a MN thread, feels qualified to speak for those billions of women, each with their own lived reality, to answer my question.

namechangeguy
FoodUnit, it seems like you are!
Snippy? As no other replies seen.

It must be rotten for you to be surrounded by such rude people. Do you find that they are all of a certain age/generation?

Isn't this requesting exchange of information?

As for your husband - how can anyone keep making the same mistake over and over?

Rhetorical flourish?

How does he analyse his own behaviour when you pull him up on it?

Requesting exchange of information, to see if behaviour changes can take?

If my wife pulled me up on this I would do my damndest to change my ways.

Anecdotal aspiration, pretty information free.

Does he think it is acceptable? Does he only do it to women?

Requesting exchange of information?

You could, perhaps, say "He [and I] are monopolising the conversation." Is our presence stifling discussion?

Ouch! That is me told then. I was trying to have a friendly conversation, but if you want me to ignore your comments/questions, I will. I was asking questions, rather than explaining anything.

No smugness, belittling or dominating was intended. Apologies if that is how you saw it. And good luck to your husband.

namechangeguy "Ouch! That is me told then. I was trying to have a friendly conversation, but if you want me to ignore your comments/questions, I will. I was asking questions, rather than explaining anything."

I don't want to hurt you, and though you did ask questions, there were a fair few assumptions underpinning it.

I'll illustrate how you could have said this in a non mansplainy way:

"FoodUnit, it seems like you are!" - this comment should be entirely cut out of your post.

"It must be rotten for you to be surrounded by such rude people." Fair enough you are trying to empathise, but at the same time you could say - "DO you really find it that widespread? How rotten if it is." By suggesting that I am exclusively surrounded by such 'rude people' diminishes the actual normalcy of the mansplain. The people I am surrounded by are all pretty normal from what I see, I wouldn't label them by their mansplaining as 'rude people' - just people who express male-entitlement - totally common in a patriarchy.

"Do you find that they are all of a certain age/generation?" Fair enough question- I would have been interested in answering this if I hadn't been peeved by the prior assumptions.

"As for your husband - how can anyone keep making the same mistake over and over?" This is an invitation to finger-point about my DH, when I see it as pretty normal that changing ones ingrained and unconscious behaviour is liable towards many lapses.

"How does he analyse his own behaviour when you pull him up on it? If my wife pulled me up on this I would do my damndest to change my ways. Does he think it is acceptable?" I sort of answered this before, but I still find this post angling to the assumption that there is something isolated about this behaviour that defines him as a freakish and uncommon sort of male.

"Does he only do it to women?" I'm sure I probably 'whitesplain' and so does he, so I think his 'privilege-splaining' lapses are probably not only done to women, but of course 'mansplaining' must be exclusively done to women, by its nature.

I quite liked the unintentional irony of foodunit's last post.

Fair enough, thank you for the response.

I suppose where we differ is that I do consider it rude, and that therefore lead to my subsequent comments. We will have to agree to differ there.

While I understand the theoretical meaning of 'whitesplaining', I have no idea how it would work in practice. Could you expand how this might manifest itself? I will declare some personal interest here - my wife is black.

sorry that should be the post of 11:14:29