For all those who have wondered why mansplaining is even a thing

[FastidiaBlueberry]

I think this article explains quite well, the concept of mansplaining and why it's so bloody irritating.

It's often said that it's "explaining something while being a man". Not quite.

Happy reading.

www.motherjones.com/media/2012/08/problem-men-explaining-things-rebecca-solnit

"Am I the only woman that is surrounded by mansplaining men? "

Namechangeguy There were two or three examples of whitesplaining, if you read back through the thread.

Frida, I cannot see any examples at all. I can see it mentioned in passing by Beachcomber, Sigmund, Onemorechap, Whatmeworry and Foodunit (amongst others) on pages 3, 4 and 6. I cannot see one example of what any of them mean by it. Hence my question.

"I do consider it rude" So do I, but I wouldn't label someone as a 'rude person' if it isn't the totality of their behaviour.

Whitesplaining. - I cannot speak for people who have been whitesplained to, but I imagine the times I am most likely to lapse into it myself, would be in a group round-the-table discussion where I voice my opinion way more than everyone else, if I am the only white person in the room.

I often notice if I am at, say, a mothers' post-natal group having a big discussion and there's only one WoC in the room (particularly not native British), she will usually be quite quiet in the mix. I fear that there is a lot of whitesplaining going on at that time to make her feel uncomfortable about joining in.

Ways I think I am far less likely to do it, is to speak of my cultural norms as the norm, and the 'rightness' of these norms, or to act like my time in Africa qualifies me to speak about what life is like for the ordinary African living in the UK to an African living in the UK, particularly if it involved detached judgements about the challenges faced, etc.

I feel a bit weird saying this because I am in no position to make assumptions about how white people whitesplain

namechangeguy - do ask your wife if she has experience/a view of whitesplaining - it would be very interesting to hear what she thinks.

FoodUnit, you have explained these complex dynamics very well. To be honest I think some posters' failure to grasp what you are saying reflects how deeply grounded these dynamics are in our culture.

Quite so kim. I never cease to be astonished by people's inability to judge the effects of their behaviour. Of course we all behave like twats sometimes, me very much included, but one should at least try to examine and modify one's unattractive conversational traits!

I cannot remember who posted it or which page it was on, but the whitesplaining example I noticed on this thread was a white person going on about a traffic cop being rude to them on one occasion and comparing it to a black persons continual harrassment by the police.

I've thought about some pretty cringy whitesplaining examples I've seen. Here's a couple:

Assuming someone doesn't have local knowledge because they are not white, even though they are born here. Then repeatedly making helpful 'suggestions' to this effect, even after nationality has been established.

Assuming someone is interested in sport, or jazz or hip-hop, or speaks patois just because they are African-descended, and trying to speak authoritatively to them about these things to prove culturedness.

Suggesting 'reverse-racism' is even a thing.

Oh there are loads....

MooncupGoddess
To be honest I think some posters' failure to grasp what you are saying reflects how deeply grounded these dynamics are in our culture.

... sounds familiar; or it could be that some of us aren't aware of the concepts. I didn't really understand the concept of privilege until I read Sclazi's post - which might be mansplaining itself, of course.

It always make me laugh when men do this to me professionally. I say 'yes, I know' and get ignored, then 'yes, i know that' again and then just let them waste their breathe and time. When they have finished their superfluous explanation I just repeat 'You know, I did know all that' and smile icily until they look embarrassed. Which they often don't have the decency to do.

Pathetic.

Actually, one of the worst is deciding they know the latest politically correct terminology for whatever, and telling you to use it (e.g. 'I think the accepted term now is 'dual heritage'). To you maybe, but I reserve the right to define myself as I see fit, so bog off.

Believing they know all about race issues because they went out with a black woman at University is another favourite.

One otherwise nice colleague explained to me and one or two others at length how all the colourful cotton prints people wear in Africa were actually made in Holland. When he'd finished one of them turned to me and said 'Is that true?' I just said 'No.' The context for this lecture was me raving about the beautiful fabrics I'd just bought on holiday in Ivory Coast.

OneMoreChap You've mentioned the Scalzi post a couple of times in this article as being the thing which opened your eyes to the concept of privilege, which is brilliant because I think that post is brilliant and want everyone to read it. Hurrah! Scalzi does great work there, really showing what a male ally to feminism can achieve by speaking to men (who are more likely to listen to men) about things men need to understand.

Super high-fives all round for the article and for mentioning it here - let's hope someone else finds it useful! [may be happily caffienated this morning, ahem]] AND one more thing: Scalzi is not mansplaining because he's not addressing women on the subject of women's issues and lives as if he knows better than them. He's addressing men on the subject of aspects of their lives to which it is easy to be (ignorantly or wilfully/defensively) blind.

I'm still trying to generate a definition of 'Mansplaining' that is catchy and accurate, but much as the definition of sexism as predjudice + power I suppose Mansplaining must be something along the lines of arrogance/assumed superior knowledge + expectation of being heard/believed. . .

Yeah, not catchy yet.

"the Scalzi post" Could you link to it? I do find it infuriating that men can only have their eyes opened by other men though, so I'm afraid that on reading it I'll think. - 'typical! one man says a crass, regurgitated version of what women have been discussing, naming, knowing for decades/eons and suddenly the ideas are works of genius.'

So hopefully Scalzi really is as amazing as you make out

scalzi

Just googled and read the

Scalzi post

Not bad.

Sorry I missed the hubbub, IRL some back to back calls.

I liked the post because it patiently sets out how this isn't some sort of "You've had it easy, bub, and all women have it tough..." but more "You're playing on easy, women are playing on hard, and if you're [choose any Daily Fascist hate group], you're playing extreme"

I can relate to that as I tend to play XBOX games on n00b, and all the visiting kids play on insane. In real life, as a tall, white, "posh-ish" accent man, who's articulate, I find it easy to get things my own way, where other folk find it harder.

Of course it's easy for me. I didn't like the privileged term, though. Scalzi made me understand why it applies.

So is that a general round of applause for him - and I guess I'm right to keep pointing folk at it?

Probably poor, orphaned, working-class, congenitally physically & learning disabled, mentally ill, black lesbian single mother living under misogynist rule, such as the Taliban.

"So is that a general round of applause for him - and I guess I'm right to keep pointing folk at it?"

I think its good (but as a non-gamer some of the technicalities are lost on me). Anything that gets people to step outside of their circumstances to perceive the unfair barriers other people face is a good thing. I particularly like the way he keeps the fact that you can't choose your own setting until the end.

kim147 "As far as I see it, we are all a mixture of privilege and disadvantages."

I'd say this is true up to a point, but it is a bit detached to say, for example that David Cameron, although privileged (in just about every f*cking way possible) is also disadvantaged in some ways (don't know, maybe being a muppet? - is that a genuine disadvantage?) and that although all the virtually nameless orphans of AIDS in SubSaharan Africa are disadvantaged in some ways, they are privileged (such as living closer to the open latrine than their neighbour?) in others..... It is meaningless. Privilege and disadvantage are on a scale and often to incomparible extremes. It is inhumane to just call them different 'mixtures' and leave it there.

David Cameron looks as though he's been carved out of Spam. That's a disadvantage.