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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Supporting abortion to term.

676 replies

VegansTasteBetter · 27/07/2012 20:01

Asking this question in feminism because, 1. I don't want a pro/against bunfight and 2 because I have only ever seen this comment made by feminists. *

I have seen the comment made that someone would support an abortion up until term for any reason (so in theory just because they changed their mind would be acceptable I guess).

If you take this stance is it because you feel to decide a cut off date for abortions would be to choose an arbitrary date in a pregnancy and that we need legally to have free access to abortions... but actually if your mate said, "just found out I am 37 weeks pregnant really don't want it, going for an abortion" you would be horrified and because you know it isn't likely to ever happen

or

if in the above scenario would you happily (assuming it were legal) take your friend down to the clinic to get an abortion because you belive the mother's choice trumps the fetus/babies right to life?

I'm prochoice but I have a real difficulty with people saying that it's acceptable for any reason up till term. And in the above scenario (if it were legal) I'd support my friend's right to demand to be induced early for her mental health and to give the baby up for adoption but not for an abortion.

  • disclaimer: I am a feminist but don't support this view
OP posts:
duchesse · 31/07/2012 15:02

Lurking your gran sounds fab!

JuliaScurr · 31/07/2012 15:11

Lurking so sorry you had to endure that. Your story is why I support 'as soon as possible, as late as necessary'.
Hope you're OK

MerlinScot · 31/07/2012 15:22

Lurking, hope you're ok ((HUGS)).
I've always avoided abortion threads, the thought of an abortion always scared me, for health reasons a pregnancy could mean death or a severe disability for me if I'm not assisted (meaning lots of money spent in people caring about me and the baby before and after he's born). Therefore, I always did whatever I could not to get pregnant if not sure I could have that.
But I'm an abuse and rape survivor too and I always wondered... what if I couldn't avoid it?

I'm glad you chose what was best for you and thanks for having the courage to post on this thread.
xx

LurkingAndLearningLovesCats · 31/07/2012 15:26

Thank you for your comments. Thanks

I guess the point I'm trying to prove is late term abortions are rarely (I would say never from my own personal experience) about anything other than desperation and suffering. Obviously I would have aborted a lot sooner than I did if I understood I was pregnant (did not have the capacity) and had access to services. By the time I got to a service I was at a VERY high part of my pregnancy. I won't say how high a not to spark debate over something terrible that happened to me.

I'd also like to add it's interesting how views change when you see the woman as a human being, not a monster desperate to kill a child. I just couldn't cope. It was my life or this blob/foetus/child's. I chose mine at a very tender age, knowing I could die just from trying to save my own life.

As weird as this sounds, I did it for my child as well. I love him/her very much. VERY much. But I simply couldn't give birth to him/her and hear their cries for my breast. I just couldn't. I couldn't face knowing he had another one of his children walking the earth who could be as evil as him. I couldn't face knowing one day there would be a knock on my door.

I believe my baby is in Heaven. And when I get there, I think they'll understand.

FWIW, not a day goes by I don't think of my child. I have no guilt. I made the right decision. But I love them with every ounce of my being. I know they're watching down on me, and will love their brothers/sisters, and the partner I will find one day who doesn't cause me pain.

I guess through a mixture of two glasses of champagne and wanting to put a face of the 'monsters,' I wanted you to see we have our reasons, even if you don't agree.

FWIW I've always agreed with nanna's stance: Disagree, but don't stop medical protection. Kinda like gay marriage etc etc. Abortion is something I would NEVER go through wth an accidental pregnancy by some fuckwit, but I support (even if I don't understand) the women who would do the opposite of what I would do in that situation, because I believe as women, we all need to support each others choices. From abortion to working mum to childless to SAHM.

Kayano · 31/07/2012 15:36

You've got me in tears Lurking you are so strong Sad thank you for sharing your story.

LurkingAndLearningLovesCats · 31/07/2012 15:43

I'm a tad embarrassed as I'm drunk (thank goodness for spell check!) but I'm glad I shared my story. Very few RL people know.

Please don't cry for me or my child, cry for the fact I was in a scenario where I had no legal access. At least this way, my child doesn't need to know I feared him/her.

summerflower · 31/07/2012 15:49

But the situation for women before abortion was legal was not that great, was it?

vezzie · 31/07/2012 15:51

Lurking, magnificent brave posts, thank you so much.

summerflower · 31/07/2012 15:52

Sorry, Lurking, I x-posed with your long post as I was taking ages how to phrase mine. Really, really sorry for your situation and as I said, very much appreciate you sharing.

Kayano · 31/07/2012 15:54

That is what I am crying for. I think you are right about where your child is Smile x

LurkingAndLearningLovesCats · 31/07/2012 15:55

summerflower, I hold no judgement :) I understand it is an emotive issue and extremely difficult to understand. I still don't understand for other women in some cases, which is probably hypocritical. But I support it, because I remember that spine chilling fear going under that I may never wake up and my pain/humiliation may be all over the papers the next day, embarrassing my loved ones.

I just understood in MY situation. I don't expect anyone else to understand how you can be revolted by your own child, fear them yet love them with all of your very being.

DizzyGoldBee · 31/07/2012 16:08

Hugs, and lots of respect.

Xenia · 31/07/2012 16:11

People go abroad to have late abortions which in the UK would be illegal but late abortion is very rare in the UK. Iti s so rare it is a bit of a non issue. I thnk we should simplfy abortion law - keep right to abort at any time for disabled children and have a straightfforward abortion on demand (which in practice we virtually have) up to about say 20 weeks and then when technology develops enough to allow a foetus to be removed from a mother and imkplanted in another to allow a father who wants to keep the child where the mother does not to have it removed and placed in his own surrogate and of course the birth mother who did not want to have it then does not have to support or have anything to do with it. That would solve the issue of those fathers who want a child where the mother does not although we could certainly make a father pay for the whole process with perhaps a payment for the mother from the father too.

DuelingFanjo · 31/07/2012 16:17

Going back to the original post

" if your mate said, "just found out I am 37 weeks pregnant really don't want it, going for an abortion"

How often is this really going to happen? Given that the majority of the tiny amount of abortions which take place this late are for medical reasons rather than because people haven't realised they are pregnant.

DuelingFanjo · 31/07/2012 16:18

"then when technology develops enough to allow a foetus to be removed from a mother and imkplanted in another to allow a father who wants to keep the child where the mother does not to have it removed and placed in his own surrogate and of course the birth mother who did not want to have it then does not have to support or have anything to do with it."

sorry but I also think this would be a horrific thing to enforce, if the technology were available!

vezzie · 31/07/2012 16:23

duelingfanjo, which part? the surrogacy part? why?

CelticOlympian · 31/07/2012 16:31

Just catching up with the thread.

Lurking I just wanted to say that I may disagree with some of your views and others here but I don't judge and don't consider any woman a 'monster' because of her choices. Thank you for telling your story and I'm sorry you went through that.

DuelingFanjo · 31/07/2012 16:33

the part where a woman who really doesn't want to bring a baby into the world would be expected to have a foetus removed and put into another woman's body! I mean, really this is what people would think is an acceptable alternative to abortion? Fuck me!

Here's hoping they don't ever create that kind of technology. Given the fact that it's really difficult to get a baby through IVF (though I was lucky) I can't imagine the kind of scenario above having much of a success-rate anyway - thank fuck!

solidgoldbrass · 31/07/2012 16:47

Lurking: very brave of you to post your story and I'm sorry if the terminology in this debate is distressing you.

MerlinScot · 31/07/2012 18:07

Lurking thanks for sharing and for doing it in a decent way Thanks

Any choice can be debatable so you shouldn't worry. You really, really showed a great strenght and you deserve my upmost respect and admiration.

x

MerlinScot · 31/07/2012 18:08

I'm not drunk but the "speech" check didn't work lol meant to say you deserve everybody's respect and admiration, no matter what.

LurcioLovesFrankie · 31/07/2012 18:14

Big Hug Lurking - you are very brave to share your story with us. It is knowing that there are real women behind abstract discussions that helps us to think things through as humantely as possible.

I think I shall be adopting JuliaScurr's slogan of "As early as possible, as late as necessary" in future.

LineRunnerSpartanNaked · 31/07/2012 19:21

"As early as possible, as late as necessary."

Yes indeed, and I would wish that the decision as to 'necessary' flows from the premise that a woman owns her own body.

GoranisGod · 31/07/2012 19:51

solid-the things you have posted on here are insensitive at best and downright nasty at worst.

I do not refer to the babies I have lost as babies for any "sentimental" reasons-I call them that because that is what they were. I have pictures of them that I could post but other posters may find it distressing.

I did not have a "lost pregnancy"-I lost 3 sons. I buried them. I think of them on their birthdays and xmas and when my dcs reach another milestone. They were real-they existed.

I have had an early abortion. I regret it but I accept it was the choice I made at the time.

Choosing to believe that babies are in fact babies rather than some non-entity does not make me a woman hater.

AnnieLobeseder · 31/07/2012 20:18

But Dueling, in all those examples you gave, I was saying that a foetus should be removed from the women when she wants it removed. There was no talk of the pregnancy being continued.