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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

To all those people who have an issue with trans people - please read this

361 replies

enimmead · 05/06/2012 00:44

This is from a transwoman who has been jailed for 41 months. A black transwoman in the USA. I don't know if she is guilty or not. She was at a bar when a bunch of thugs started harassing her. The fact that they had Neo Nazi links was inadmissable in court. A glass got broken and a fight broke out. Ce Ce has been found guilty of stabbing someone and killing him - 41 months in jail (don't worry, it's a male jail).

This is from her blog:

supportcece.wordpress.com/2011/11/20/as-long-as-we-live-in-fear-we-live-in-ignorance/

To the many of us who have struggled, being of the GLBTQ community, this is for you. To those who have triumphed over the idea of conforming to this fascist, hateful society, this is for you. But most importantly, this is for all of our loved ones who have become victims of hate crimes and domestic violence being of the GLBTQ community, specifically Trans men and women, who are singled out and have the highest percentage of victims of hate crimes and domestic violence. My love and prayers go out to the families and loved ones of those who have lost a friend, a brother or sister, a mother or father, an auntie, uncle or cousin, or a partner or spouse to this epidemic. To all those unfortunate cases, this is for you.

In the memories of those who we have lost, it is our duty to put an effort to make a change. We should not have to sit back in the fear of our own lives and well being, or the lives and well being of those we love and care for due to the hate that exist and threatens our safety. We should not have to mourn for the lives of the people we love and have lost due to hate and careless acts. We have to stand up against those who put us down and try to oppress us. We have to enlighten the neophobics of this world and to help them realize the vast and diverse world we live in. because as long as [we] live in fear, [we] live in ignorance.

I thank the lord everyday for keeping me here and giving me such a profound mouth and mind to share my experiences and the trials and tribulations I?ve overcame, because honestly, I never thought I would make it past my 16th birthday. To grow up and have that thought at a young age is unsettling. The thought or feeling of knowing or expecting that today could be my last day on earth, only because someone hates me for being the person I felt would make my life happiest, or for being in an abusive and controlling relationship with someone who has no regards or remorse as to how they treat their partner is an unsettling thought. But it?s more unsettling to know that this is our reality, and that these are the issues we have to face on a day-to-day basis. And even with all that we choose to live our lives, and to continue living them proudly with gumption, bravery, and love in our minds and hearts. I know I still have faith in people, and am willing to make a change if they are willing as well.

We all grow up in different communities, with different social categorizations, but when it comes to being GLBTQ, sometimes we?re excluded and put into a category of it?s own, that is demeaning and belittling, and that no matter where you are we are singled out. I grew up in a community that was predominately African-American people. And with the fact of me just being a minority in this society was bad, being African American and trans is an ultimate challenge. I can remember having loaded guns being put to my head and being beat until bloody. Or walking downs the street and being yelled ? a faggot?. I thought because of their ignorance I decided to change my surroundings. So I moved to a suburban community, which were predominately white people. Then, I remember people grabbing their purses and children, like I was a thief and was going to steal their money and kids, and to still be yelled ?queer? or ?faggot?, which made me feel upset and that my efforts of leaving one community to another, went without victory. Also being a victim of domestic violence was also an issue that I had to deal with in my early teenage years. And fortunately I got out of that situation.

The point I was trying to make was that no matter where you go, or community you live in, people will continue to discriminate. And as long as we do not stand up for our equality, we allow them to have the upper hand against us. We allow for them to feel that?s its okay to verbally and physically attack us. And I feel that it is our duty to give these people the awareness and education about whom we truly are, and not whom they assume we are. We have to make sure that we won?t lose any more of our loved ones due to hate crimes and domestic violence. These problems are often over-looked when it comes to GLBTQ people because people feel that it isn?t as important if it happened to a straight person. Which is ironic because these problems affect us disproportionately. I feel that it is our duty to change the minds of those neophobics, because as long as [we] live in fear, [we] live in ignorance.

We have to be the matriarchs of this society. To start teaching our younger generations about hate, and why it?s so important not to hate. We have to end the bullying and harassment in our school systems. To organize more community actions and awareness about hate crimes and how to stop them from happening. We need to be leaders and role models for all to learn from. And from that we would be able to help and comfort someone who is unsure about his or her own sexual identity and preference. We will be able to eliminate people?s fears of being victims of hate crimes and domestic violence. To help someone to accept and be comfortable as whomever they choose to be, with no judgments or stereotypic labels attached.

And to all my brothers and sisters of the GLBTQ community, this is for us all. This is for those who are still here, and for those who have passed. With love and determination we can be the leaders. We can make a change. Because, see, what people fail to realize is that, even through their hate, bigotry, conforming, and biased views and actions that are enforced upon us,? love is inevitable and overcomes any and all things. And as long as love is in our mind and hearts, it can show us, even in fear, how to be leaders and role models, to be the leaders to show how to overcome the hate and oppression. Love is powerful enough to change the hearts of the neophobics in this world. Because as long as [we] live in fear, [we] live in ignorance."

---------------

There has been so much hatred and ignorance spouted on this forum and i think some people forget trans people are people who deserve our humanity and support, not our ill informed bile and bigotry. I have been shocked at the level of anger on this thread. I have friends who are trans and they just want to exist and be accepted as people. There are a minority of activists who affect what everyone else does.

You may not accept what they believe. You may not accept the terminology. But accept they are people who are just trying to survive in a very difficult world.

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 05/06/2012 09:32

What f*t and c*k with a d**k? (or something equally offensive).

Really?

On MN?

enimmead · 05/06/2012 09:32

They're just men with penises - a reasonable statement for some.

What are some people really thinking but are too polite or wary of MN rules to really say?

OP posts:
QueenTiggyDTheFirst · 05/06/2012 09:32

Have a read through trans related threads and you will see lots of posts that have been removed.

enimmead · 05/06/2012 09:33

No - we haven't seen that language.

But get someone pissed and then they get really angry at a trans person and who knows what they might say.

OP posts:
icepole · 05/06/2012 09:34

So someone can feel like a woman and access women only spaces and to deny this is to deny that person's reality. But doesn't it work both ways? I don't get it. Why is my reality not important too? I have attended woman only groups, they were important to me. Is this now not ok? I can't get my head round it.

Beachcomber · 05/06/2012 09:34

QueenTiggy do you mind if I ask you the same question I just asked WW on another thread?

Does that mean that you think that a person with a penis, testes, a prostrate and no uterus, ovaries, vagina or XX chromosomes is a woman? That such a person is exactly the same as a biological women?

Yes or no?

Beachcomber · 05/06/2012 09:35

Oh right.

Well let me know when these hypothetical pissed and angry MNers show up and start posting 'f**t' all over the shop so that I can report them.

enimmead · 05/06/2012 09:36

That's not what this thread is about - it's about how trans people are perceived and treated in society. And the hate talk thrown at them by people who don't understand them.

The issue of women only spaces is incrediblly important.

OP posts:
chibi · 05/06/2012 09:38

re you serious? we haven't seenanyone here write anything like that, but get them cross and you can imagine what they might say?

how on earth can anyone answer that? how on earth can anyone respond to that?

droves · 05/06/2012 09:38

One of the links ( in your link ) said that McDonald originally faced two counts of manslaughter .
( think it was the free cece one) .

Sorry didn't find her blog heartwarming ...more disturbingly I viewed it as an attempt to justify her killing, and to blame the fact she had suffered bigotry/racism/ transphobia repeatedly .
Particularly in bad taste was the opening comments about , loved ones lost.
Whilst they might not have been particularly nice people , the person who died ,and his friends , were people someone loved .

Psychopathic people never accept blame for their actions , and always have an excuse for their behaviour that blames others , or circumstances .

I would have more sympathy if Cece had just said , I did not mean to kill , only to defend myself , and I am sorry that someone died. But there is more concern about for herself about possible future treatment at the hands of prision inmates.

enimmead · 05/06/2012 09:39

They're probably lurking in the background forming their own views.
I do think there are a lot of pissed and angry MNers on here - and rightly so because of the actions of trans activists and Conwy Hall.

Do you think that some of this anger might be taken out on a trans person they see out in the public?

Because transwomen do get this kind of abuse from men and from women.

OP posts:
chibi · 05/06/2012 09:40

i would offer to speculate what some clearly delusional posters might write when their blood is up, but frankly their actual posts far outdo anything i might suggest

bloody hell

chibi · 05/06/2012 09:42

And now speculation that we might violently assault people in real life.

enimmead · 05/06/2012 09:42

droves - Would you feel the same if a woman who had been subject to harassment over a lifetime had been subject to such an attack and defended herself?

Or is it the victims fault she was attacked and fought back? You (and I ) do not know how much racial and trans abuse she had had over the years. She fought back with tragic consequences for everyone. Should she feel sorry her attacker died?

OP posts:
enimmead · 05/06/2012 09:43

Women are incapable of violence and anger?

Is that what you are saying?

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chibi · 05/06/2012 09:44

enimead, you seem to have a lot of animosity toward people with xx chromosomes, who identify as women. I wonder if that animosity has ever been expressed violently?

what might you do, if angry? i wonder what you are capable of?

i wonder if we can ever know how many women have suffered at your hands

oh i wonder, i really wonder

icepole · 05/06/2012 09:44

I don't think that feminists are physically attacking trans people though. I don't think anyone on here is in agreement with that kind of awful treatment. I was disturbed by the links you posted about the trans women of colour, awful. I don't think feminists are the problem though.

chibi · 05/06/2012 09:46

Can the extent to which you have violated and assaulted women ever be known? I fear we can never know for sure Sad

BelleDameSansMerci · 05/06/2012 09:46

No, I do not believe that anger would be taken out on a transactivist/trans-person. Do you?

chibi · 05/06/2012 09:47

likewise, will we ever know how many kittens you've killed, or orphans you've kicked, enimmead? we can but speculate

Beachcomber · 05/06/2012 09:47

Are you seriously asking me if I think some hypothetical pissed and angry MNers would heckle, harass and attack a transperson with a glass?

You appear convinced that these hypothetical MNers are lurking and holding themselves back from calling people 'fts' - a horrible homophobic offensive term which is on a par with nr.

You do realise that radical feminism is in part a lesbian movement don't you?

droves · 05/06/2012 09:47

Enimmead YES I would feel exactly the same if it was a woman, or a man , whether they be Caucasian, Asian, black or mixed race .

It does not matter what sex or race they are . Someone died and the person who caused that ( even if it was accidental) should be remorseful and sorry for that ...not sorry that they have been jailed.

enimmead · 05/06/2012 09:50

That's an interesting leap of logic.

I have an issue with people who use hate talk. Men and women. Hate talk about anybody.

I am not sure how you translate that to animonisty towards women.

Personally, I would never hurt a fellow human being. I abhor violence and I abhor hatred. I abhor a lack of compassion and understanding. I abhor a lack of love towards fellow humans. I believe in doing the right thing by people.

That's the Buddhist part of me.

OP posts:
droves · 05/06/2012 09:51

Women are quite capable of violence and other vile things , as you well know enimmead. All human beings are.

Point of that was ?

Beachcomber · 05/06/2012 09:52

Oh and I don't doubt that there are plenty of very unpleasant and violent people who harrass and attack transpeople.

I don't see support for them on MN from anyone, feminists or otherwise.

And I think it is insulting and offensive to imply otherwise.

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