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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I don't appear to have the typical female experience I'd be interested in what some of you have to say

269 replies

hathorinareddress69 · 16/04/2012 14:19

Not a thread about a thread but on another thread I realised that I don't seem to have had the typical female experience, and I just wondered what you thought (since LRD suggested this was not a scary place)

I don't seem to have had the experiences that some of the feminists have - I don't feel the need to share with females, I never had a man leer or wolf whistle or try to look up my skirt.

My best friend is a man and I can (and do) discuss anything with him and he does with me.

Am I that abnormal?

OP posts:
swallowedAfly · 19/04/2012 08:58

damn i posted again after saying i wouldn't now i will be accused of god only knows what.

hathorkicksass · 19/04/2012 08:59

That, SAF, is your opinion.

It is not how I perceived it.

And if her feelings that I attacked her and upset her are valid, then so are mine.

swallowedAfly · 19/04/2012 09:17

everyone has acknowledged your feelings and their validity. everyone. they've just refused to give them precedence over other people's rights to express their own feelings and views. especially when those views have been asked for and then when given attacked for being imposed on you.

this is a bit of an impossible thread.

hathorkicksass · 19/04/2012 09:18

Again, SAF, that is your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it.

I don't see why my views should hold any less weight.

And if it's an impossible thread, why are you posting? Confused

swallowedAfly · 19/04/2012 09:23

well yeah it's my opinion that's what discussion boards are about often. especially when someone actively courts other people's opinions by starting a thread.

i posted to support someone who is getting a very rough time on here and is having their words/intentions/feelings twisted imo.

no one has said your views hold less weight. you seem to be talking to a straw man rather than the people who take the time to talk to you.

swallowedAfly · 19/04/2012 09:23

note 'imo' and 'seem'.

hathorkicksass · 19/04/2012 09:27

But my words/intentions/feelings were also twisted.

Does that mean because I'm not a regular poster on here, and because I don't identify as strongly as others with a feminist viewpoint and am trying to find my way, that my feelings are less valid?

swallowedAfly · 19/04/2012 09:36

again - no one has said your feelings are less valid. everyone has validated your feelings. feelings are feelings - we all have them and we can all try and be sensitive to them. i personally don't think that when talking about politics and serious stuff feelings are the best guides and dictators of what can be said and what is real. there is a balancing act of being respectful to one another's feelings but also of taking responsibility and ownership of our own feelings and trying to remain objective, respectful to others and fair minded.

swallowedAfly · 19/04/2012 09:38

and using hurt feelings as a weapon against others is manipulative and underhand imo. anyone can fall into doing it sometimes - it can be a response from a position of hurt that overtakes our reasonableness or fair mindedness briefly until we step back and reassess.

we're all adults, we all carry our own feelings and take responsibility for them and try to tread carefully around other people's whilst honouring our own.

hathorkicksass · 19/04/2012 09:41

"using hurt feelings as a weapon against others is manipulative and underhand" - agree.

But you know, I wasn't being treated in an objective, fair minded and respectful way.

And I apologised, repeatedly, and had already made my feelings clear - and yet I was still attacked over and over.

Seems to me like an apology isn't enough.

Nyac · 19/04/2012 09:41

I think the thing you have to remember with feminism is that it's a group/class analysis, so the idea that individual women have different experiences doesn't actually undermine its political viewpoint. It's demonstrable that many many women share the same experiences of oppression within our male-dominated world, it's not something that's imaginary. Women and girls are treated differently and less well or even harmed because of misogyny and male domination e.g.

Female genital mutilation
Rape
Domestic violence
Forced marriage
Prostitution
Pornography
The wage gap
The power gap (men hold the majority of power)

and so on. It would be difficult to argue that these are down to individuals when in fact men have created structures and laws to enforce these.

Also to answer your question hathor, I suppose the one thing that all women and girls share is the fundamental female experience of being female, and having a female body, with everything that that can entail.

hathorkicksass · 19/04/2012 09:42

What is the "fundamental experience of being female" though?

Surely it's societally different based on location, upbringing and a whole gamete of other factors?

And as such, then there is no fundamental experience?

Nyac · 19/04/2012 09:46

Just that. The fact of having a female body.

Being female in itself is a real experience. It's not the same for example as being male.

It's like the fundamental experience of being a human, which isn't the same as being a blackbird or a vole say.

hathorkicksass · 19/04/2012 09:48

But I just don't see it like that Confused

I just don't.

What happened to me happened because my ex is an arse. Not particularly because I'm female, but because he's an arse.

And by making it about me being female, that's moving the focus to me, and taking it off the fact that he is an arse.

IYSWIM?

Nyac · 19/04/2012 09:52

That's fine. Nobody is asking you too.

Some of us, quite a lot of us do see it like that, and for us, that is what is important.

I don't think though that saying that a violent man is supported and encouraged by the structures of patriarchy is taking the focus off of him.

It's a bit like arguing that pointing out that the Nazis were driven by evil anti-semitism in their genocide of jewish people is taking the focus off the Nazis and on to the Jewish victims. If someone has an underlying belief system to support their cruelty that is also reflected and encouraged in society at large, then it wouldn't make sense not to point it out.

hathorkicksass · 19/04/2012 09:55

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

LowFlyingBirds · 19/04/2012 10:02

As someone who is not a regular poster on this section, or known or anything else i have to say that this thread reads as though you wanted to be able to say youd been attacked, victimised, hurt etc by feminists. That didnt happen yet you've still managed to claim it. Well done you.

Nyac · 19/04/2012 10:02

Like I said that's fine.

You don't have to agree with feminist analysis. Nobody does. That doesn't mean though that feminists shouldn't be making it, or that it's wrong.

hathorkicksass · 19/04/2012 10:03

LFB - no that's not what I meant at all.

Have I said that it's wrong, Nyac? Confused

LowFlyingBirds · 19/04/2012 10:05

And no, im not much of a 'sisterhood' type either, so i cant be arsed to be as patient and tolerant of your strange ranting as the other women here have been, you know...the feminists.

hathorkicksass · 19/04/2012 10:06

WEll, LFB, that's your opinion.

So what do you want me to say?

I started this thread as a musing to try to understand - obviously that was a mistake and I shouldn't have.

swallowedAfly · 19/04/2012 10:29

i haven't seen much sign of trying to understand. lots of lashing out and accusations and much 'that's your opinion. i don't agree'. and lots of double standards.

SweetGrapes · 19/04/2012 10:31

As far as women being horrible to other women - of course thay can be and are. My MIL et all upholds the patriachy with great vigour. It's a different culture and the women do group together much more and the men are out doing 'men' things - but the sister hood doesn't mean that she won't be mean to anyone else. All the dil's are expected to stay in line and be slaves and there's a strict hierachy. if someone's h mistreats she may sympathise etc but will not say a word to the son.

When my sister had her daughter some of the neighbuors (women) sympathised and told her to 'find out next time'.

They all believe that they are inferior to men and that's the way it is.

So sisterhood doesn't mean being nice to women at all. That's not a given anywhere.

I experienced loads of sexism when I was there (and some here in the UK)- it was because of my being a woman - but not my fault. It was because they view a woman as a,b,c. Not because I was a,b,c. Them being bastards and them being conditioned to see women as their slaves, sex objects whatever.... And I was/am a woman. Whatever that means....

hathorkicksass · 19/04/2012 10:32

SAF - what do you want me to say? That I agree when I don't?

swallowedAfly · 19/04/2012 10:34

i think sisterhood is an outcome of consciousness raising and a conscious effort then to overcome our conditioning in dealing with each other. it is counter to what we are trained for so it takes effort and work to strive for it and 'be' part of it.