Unhappy dad seeking feminist advice

[UnimaginitiveDadThemedUsername]

"We're princesses. We like dressing up and shopping."

Had a friend's daughter stay over this Saturday with our DD (both 3 1/2), and this is what we heard for most of the day from the two of them. This is pretty much the straw that is breaking the camel's back (even more so than the pink toy washing machine given to us by my mother-in-law when I wasn't there).

My question is this - how hard am I going to have to fight so DD grows up to realise that she is a person in her own right and not someone else's chattel or arm candy? I'm wondering if it's a lost cause.
Ironically, I feel that my efforts are and will continue to be sabotaged by women who know nothing else (see washing machine incident above). I mention stuff in a non-confrontational way to female members of the family and feel like they don't take me seriously.

Any practical suggestions? Or should I stop worrying?

You sound a bit try hard to me. My ds pretends to be a pirate, or a cowboy. It's not a big deal.

I disagree Chub that it isn't a big deal. The socialisation of our children into stereotypical gender roles is a very real and definite problem. So much research shows how this happens from birth and the impact of it is particular traits being assigned to female and male; to say it doesn't matter is, quite frankly worrying.

My ds is that age and regularly declares himself to be a princess while wearing a tutu. If this wouldn;t concern you then I really wouldn;t be worried about 2 3 year old girls doing the same tbh. He also has a kitchen, though admittedly it's not pink.

I dont think you should feel the need to supress part of a child by putting restrictions on what colours they are allowed to like and what they like to dress up as (admittedly I would draw the line at stripper but one would hope that is not a concept a nearly 3 year old would be in a position of grasping anyway).

The more you struggle against something the further they will go towards it. DD has a range of toys, one day she will play with her dolls and doll house and the next it will be dinosours and cars (She also has a few pairs of boys pjs because they are the style she likes). I do get angry at all the pink and will pay more for a gender nutral version of what ever toy we want to get her. Mainly because too much pink gives me a headache)

Giving any child a sense of self worth is the most important thing you can do.

But fuckity, your son won't have the rest of society thrusting pink sparkly princess ballerina fairy role models at him for the next ten years. OP's DD will.

Why are you focusing your attention on how women and female members of your family are the source of the problem?

DD likes being a princess sometimes. She also likes being buzz lightyear and being jessie the cowgirl from toy story.

well i dont think you should be fighting what your DD is drawn towards, more a case of exposing her to a wide variety of play things and outfits instead of taking away the ones she is being given IYSWIM.

e.g: i have 2 boys, both like dressing up as transformers, cowboys and shooting each other with guns etc but 'santa' brought them a kitchen set with an washing machine, ironing board etc and they love it. it is the main thing they play with during the day. i think it would have felt odd TBH to not let them have the typical 'boy' toys taht they have. just make sure your DD is aware that there is more available to her than being a princess but dont try to suppress what she naturally wants to do.

I think that your dd is off to a good start, because she has a Dad who sees this very real issue for what it is, and who wants to empower her to be her own person.

IME, kids pick up and internalize an awful lot of what their parents believe, so an important thing to do is to discuss these things with her, starting now, in an age - appropriate way. Have the kind of conversations that this dad is apparently having with his little girl.

But I think you also have to be careful not to send her a message that elevates "boys things" (by which I mean things that marketing, pop culture messaging etc. will tell her are for boys), and denigrates "girls' things." So, it's not that playing with trucks is better than playing with baby dolls or that primary colours are better than pink and lavender. It's that trucks are fun for girls and boys to play with, and so are babydolls, and red is a lovely colour for a girl's or a boy's bicycle, as is pink.

Hope that makes sense? I have a young dd and am struggling with the same thing, so I'm not any kind of expert but I understand your concern. Does her mother share your views on this?

Dont worry, I take it you dont dress her up in pink every day? Boys and girls love dressing up, be it in pink tutu or cowboy outfits, both mine did, just give them a wide range of toys and let their imagination run riot
Having two daughters my dh though he would never stand at the side of football pitch cheering them on but they both play for teams and love it!

Your DD will be subjected to this all of her life.
You cant stop it.
You can give her the tools to deal with it.

I think you just have to try to dilute it. For example, sneak in gender neutral or traditionally 'male' toys into the mix, hide or 'lose' some of the pink stuff, encourage sporty activities, spend time making things together, make shopping trips really tedious ... but ultimately just spending father/daughter time together will help as well.

You say "so, you are a princess today? That's nice! What will you be tomorrow?" ususally, it will be something totally unrelated. Try not to make 'being a princess' an issue with her (by either promoting it or deterring her form it).

Make sure you have a nice full dressy up box with a completley varied selection of stuff.

You need to read Cordelia Fines Delusions of Gender and Peggy Orenstein's Cinderella Ate my Daughter. The organisation Pink Stinks are brilliant on this.

Buy some Lego and build with your daughter and take her bike riding but don't denigrate traditionally 'girl' activities. Your daughter needs lots of options; not just pushed towards 'boy' activities.

Girls being nothing but pink princesses is harmful and destructive. However, you need to talk to your partner about this and not just make pronouncements.

Ooh, yy to Lego and Playmobil (I still love it now). My little sister also got a great little digger set which carted coal around. With my DD, if I buy something for her, I get the primary coloured, unisex option. She gets plenty of pink from other people.

I agree with Madamchinlegs, if you have a dressing up box with both gender and some other non gender costumes, she will dress as different things, my neices were dressed in my boys old thunderbirds costumes the other day, having a whale of a time.

Erm. Dont know,

My ds2 (3) has a play kitchen, hoover and washing machine. His fave colour is pink. Not something I think about a lot really.

I have never let them have guns etc (I dont agree with glorifying violence) AND YET my ds1 (8) is obsessed by war and armies...nature vs nurture I guess?

You may have to accept your daughter for who she is which is a girly type of girl. I am not a girly type of girl. Neither is the "wrong" thing to be (although I really loathe pink...I think sometimes ds2 does it to bug me!!)

I disagree COMPLETELY with not blaming the women in the family! Who is to blame if they are the ones propagating the stereotypes?

We went through the same thing when DD was about 4 - at 6, she is now utterly non-princessy and also very aware of sexism and stereotypes in books and TV (militantly so sometimes!) I found 2 things really helped:

1. Never make a big deal about it. Be totally neutral. In fact don't even mention it and keep a straight face when she wants to dress up. Remember what they say about forbidden fruit ...

1. As she got a bit older (say 5), started to use gentle humour to reduce attractiveness of princess role models. Like, we invented this story called "The Rubbish Princess" which was all about a princess who was basically quite crap - sat around combing her hair and expecting everyone to rescue her all the time - but eventually learnt how to be a Real Princess and save the planet!

Good luck, it is absolutely infuriating how prevalent these negative role models are, but possible to overcome them if you can allow your DD to think it through for herself. I daresay a lot of this is just about growing up.

I know where you're coming from as the whole pink thing drives me nuts. DD asks for pink things all the time and we're not a girly family, so it is all coming from outside influences.

I have nothing against pink per se but I do when its used to drive home gender differences from a young age.

DD has a garage and cars and a space ship and dinosaurs as well as some pink shit "girls" toys such as dolls, a pram and other stuff.

Another vote for 'cinderella ate my daughter'.

But don't sweat it too much - just continue to give her lots of options. If all of her friends are glittery pink and frilly, your job is to ensure she is strong minded enough later to make her own choices. You can't railroad her away from barbie, you don't live in a cultural vacuum.

Careful parenting will continue to ensure that she knows that there is more than one choice available. But one afternoon playing princesses and dress up with another 3 yo does not a wannabe Barbara Cartland make. Have a bit more faith in your parenting.

get her involved with sport as she grows up - any sport that she wishes to, whether that be rugby or cheerleading, swimming or judo.

I mention sport as it seems in the main a good confiedence builder without large divides at a young age

Princess Smarty-Pants, the Paperbag Princess, Zog, Princess Pigsty and You can't eat a Princess are all good alternative princess stories.

ALL children should have a toy kitchen, regardless of sex.