Agenda, much?

[Malificence]

I don't usually wander onto the MN facebook page but I was pretty horrified to find what looks very much like an MRA agenda posted on there.
I'm trying very hard to see what relevance the photo used for their site has regarding the voices of unheard children. Looks more like how they would like to see their women to me.

www.facebook.com/#!/mumsnet?sk=wall

Yes MNHQ when are you going to delete that thread on you FB page which has turned into the Carl and Pete show, basically saying women lie about DV. That isn't true but is allowed to stand? Why are you not protecting your members? Why are you letting a misogynistic organisation call the shots? Just look at the language they use "princess", "miss piggy muppets". Not really language of someone who likes women. Claiming that women falsely allege DV is not said by people who like women.

Well given that Nadine, tweeted Mumsnet to demand that our posts be removed here, maybe someone from Mumsnet Towers should be tweeting F4J to demand that they take down all their woman-hating anti-mother posts on their Facebook page.

It can work both ways.

I love the idea of a head of an organisation, demanding to an invaded website that the distrupters they've sent over should be offered protection.

She'll probably be calling up the head of Gingerbread to, to tell them not to hang up the phone on F4J's harassing phonecalls.

also, agree with Nyac's post at 10:15. We know WHERE they're coming from. We know they've set up accounts just for this... They've basically stamped "troll" on their foreheads, and still MN's telling us to play nicely...

Not easy when you've had your quotes misquoted on F4J, being told you're basically setting your son up for a fall on the MN facebook page, and trying your hardest to deal with the posts on here. so apologies if I have lost my temper on occasion, but can you really blame us, MNHQ? We'[re real people too, with real feelings...

I think their presence on the FB page is a disgrace. They are peddling myths and being dismissive and rude, if corrected. They are using the tactics of bullies, and passive agressives.

It's deplorable.

I didn't realise they were still posting on the Mumsnet Facebook Wall. FGS. Why can't they stick to their own website? Or is it boring over there?

More of a smarmy up-yours tbh Beer, rather than anything nearing an apology. I can't believe it's been left to stand since last night, especially given the comments on it.

Thank you for the clarification Justine :) I appreciate it must have been incredibly difficult to make sure all those posts which could have been defamatory were deleted, however I would agree with everyone else and say that surely when we know this is an orchestrated trolling attack, regular MN'ers should be given priority over invaders? As someone upthread says, it is bonkers that F4J sent people over here, got pissed off when we didn't agree with them and then had the audacity to complain about it and get posts deleted. It beggars belief, it really does.

Thank you for your comments Justine

It wasn't an apology. It was a ner ni ner ni ner ner.

That wasn't at Justine btw it was at "Pete" on the FB page.

@HandDivedScallopsrgreat

Yes MNHQ when are you going to delete that thread on you FB page which has turned into the Carl and Pete show, basically saying women lie about DV. That isn't true but is allowed to stand? Why are you not protecting your members? Why are you letting a misogynistic organisation call the shots? Just look at the language they use "princess", "miss piggy muppets". Not really language of someone who likes women. Claiming that women falsely allege DV is not said by people who like women.

We don't only allow posts from people who "like" women but we will look at the DV claim for sure and delete if it's as you say. thanks for pointing out.

@Nyac

I do understand that it's not easy to manage, especially when you're getting opinions and demands from all sides Justine.

But when you've actually got a public invasion, from another website with people telling one another to report regular Mumsnetters' posts. is it really not possible not to take a different approach apart from acceding to the invaders requests?

Also, I do think that the feminists are generally ignored by Mumsnet when we point out blatant trolling and concerted attacks, or even attacks on us.

Also it's difficult to read about freedom of speech when it was our posts being deleted.

Yes it is possible to take a better approach than we did yesterday. Which is why we have apologised and said we didn't get it right.

In general though, reports are NEVER ignored, but we don't always agree with the analysis. It's the policy/conspiracy point that I take issue with, though - we try v hard to treat each report on it's merit and in context.

OK Justine but most of your members are women. Plus if it were racial you wouldn't let it stand. But because they are talking about women you are willing to? Why do you feel the need to engage with these people? They certainly don't want to engage with us.

NYAC, I get why you're pissed off. It went mad last night. Someone made a severe error of judgement and totally missed the big picture. It's in line with MN policy to delete 'personal abuse', but the situation was much more complicated than that. I'm really shocked at the deletions and MN apologising to them.

I know it grates having that shit on the Facebook page, but at least it shows what kind of people they are.

Please give MN a few hours to sort out their response. If you're not happy with it then, I'll hold your coat while you let rip.

Justine - it isn't only the DV denying - the language - 'Mrs Piggy' 'Princess' 'Time will show you all for the selfish power hungry warped misandrists you actually are ' 'Get a brain'

Honestly?

@HandDivedScallopsrgreat

OK Justine but most of your members are women. Plus if it were racial you wouldn't let it stand. But because they are talking about women you are willing to? Why do you feel the need to engage with these people? They certainly don't want to engage with us.

I don't particularly feel the need to engage with them, and I think we were far too emollient yesterday, as said, but I don't believe the issue they raise around fathers' rights should be off-limits for discussion.

Dear Justine and MNHQ, don't you see that by allowing misogynistic attacks (ie posts from people who don't like women about how much they hate them) you are making it an extremely unpleasant space FOR women?
The rest of the whole goddamned internet is full of space for people who don't like women and it often becomes a horrible place to be because of that (see for eg the thread in FWR about the cycling forum with the pics of naked ladies on bikes). I thought we could count on MUMSNET to be a safe space for women, that's why we come here fgs! Why the FUCK are you providing a space(on the MN FB page) for men to call women 'Miss Piggy muppets' and saying that's ok because you allow posts from people who don't like women?

Sorry MNHQ I am unbelievably angry and disappointed in you. I don't think I can bear to be on the site for now.

apologies for swearing and shouting at you Justine

But Justine, we are capable of sensible, reasonable discussion; you only have to look at some of the threads which haven't been invaded by those with an agenda.

The FWR section isn't autonomous. We are all capable of independent thought, despite what F4J are saying about us, what we're allowing to stand atm. They've personally attacked me, implying I'm a man hating bitch. I'm not going into my story so they can rip it apart on FB. But I'm not sure I want to engage in a space I previously felt was a safe space, with the risk of being told I'm a total bitch and abusing my son because I'm trying to protect him. I'd rather we didn't have women, seeking help on here, being told that "well, plenty of women lie about abuse, so you probably are too, and even if you're not, jusst give your ex shared access..." None of us are opposed to decent fathers being allowed to parent their children. It's encouraging women to give access to men who've abused them and their children that we don't agree with.

They use names such as 'ladies', 'princess' as derogatory terms. I find this abusive.

Thank you Justine for looking into the matter, and I do realise how hard this is without seeming to be censoring. For now, I'll keep off the FB page and ignore the obvious trolling.

I won't be silenced on these boards though. This amazon is not going to be intimidated.

That's the problem. There are some valid points to be made about fathers struggling to get access to see their children. They don't make them. They are domestic violence agnostics and it takes about 5 minutes for many of them to spiral into conspiracy theories and unveiled misogyny.

This is a group whose own Facebook page had a call for them to troll Gingerbread on it!

@StewieGriffinsMom

The stuff on the FB page should be deleted.

We've taken a look and deleted that post on our Facebook wall now, thanks for flagging it to us.