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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Agenda, much?

999 replies

Malificence · 03/03/2012 17:47

I don't usually wander onto the MN facebook page but I was pretty horrified to find what looks very much like an MRA agenda posted on there.
I'm trying very hard to see what relevance the photo used for their site has regarding the voices of unheard children. Hmm Looks more like how they would like to see their women to me.

www.facebook.com/#!/mumsnet?sk=wall

OP posts:
LineRunner · 06/03/2012 23:52

Please MNHQ believe me.

NarkedPuffin · 06/03/2012 23:57

Erin Pizzey article in the Mail

WARNING Unpleasant and triggering

It's really sad. Read it and you can see how she came to be that way. She has attached all the blame for her childhood to her mother Sad

TheSecondComing · 07/03/2012 00:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LineRunner · 07/03/2012 00:10

Blame is a self-destructing nightmare, that's for sure. Like denial.

MNHQ I would like to hear a response to TheSecondComing, please.

NarkedPuffin · 07/03/2012 00:12

I don't think it would have happened if Justine or Catherine had been around.

solidgoldbrass · 07/03/2012 00:21

Hey, their facebook page is open. You don't have to sign in, you can just run in, laugh at them and run away again.

LineRunner · 07/03/2012 00:29

MNHQ?

JustineMumsnet · 07/03/2012 00:35

Hi all,
I've had a good butchers at the deleted posts here and I do agree that we have been a bit over-zealous with the deletions on this thread. I think there have been some dodgy allegations that we were right to delete plus and some unfair tarring all members of an organisation with a wife battering brush-type posts but lots of the posts we deleted were valid opinions about the way F4J members interact and the tactics they use.

Secondly F4J clearly have done themselves no favours by posting crap on our facebook wall and trolling Gingerbread and understandably that has raised the hackles of some normally completely and utterly temperate Mumsnetters Smile.

So to those on this thread who've been deleted and shouldn't have been, many apologies. We do make mistakes sometimes - trust me, it's not always easy to make the right calls when the reports are flying thick and fast.

And to members of Fathers4Justice posting here please note: We are a site that allows and positively encourages diverse opinion and debate but our overriding aim is to make people's lives easier. If you are merely here to antagonise and/or to contribute nothing beyond an intransigent view on a single issue rather than enter into honest debate, then you are not welcome and will be banned.

LineRunner · 07/03/2012 00:38

Justine, I'm glad I stayed up to read your message.

NarkedPuffin · 07/03/2012 00:40

Thank you Justine.

LeBOF · 07/03/2012 00:41

Thank fuck for that- I was really worried there.

FrothyDragon · 07/03/2012 00:53

Thank you so much for that, Justine. Thank you. :)

KRITIQ · 07/03/2012 01:16

For what it's worth, Erin Pizzey was one of the founders of one of the first women's refuges in the UK. Although she tried to make out that Chiswick was a one woman show, I knew two women who were involved in its establishment (but didn't blow their trumpets about it) and at roughly the same time, a group of Labour supporting women were setting up a similar house in Scotland - it just didn't get the media coverage.

By 1974, there were nearly 30 women's refuges around England and they formed the first "federation." When the held their 2nd conference a year later, they set out agreed principles for Women's Aid. One of these was the recognition that men's violence against women and children was the result of women's inequality in society. Erin Pizzey vehemently opposed the inclusion of this statement, but every other refuge voted for it. So, she parted company with Women's Aid in the mother of all huffs. (it's on page 165 of this book from my shelf - don't have an electronic reference to hand.)

After that, she traded on her status as the "founder of the first refuge," lobbying against local authority funding for any refuge but her own, insisting they were all run by militant feminists. Thankfully, most didn't listen. However, the bee has continued to buzz very noisily in her bonnet since what she perceived as a personal snub from Women's Aid, way back in 1975. Eventually, others at Chiswick gave her the heave ho as well when her increasingly bizarre techniques and ideas about women and children being "prone to violence" started to undermine both their reputation and the welfare of those who sought refuge.

She's still popular amongst certain sections of the media, particularly when they want an "authority" who can argue that women are as violent as men, the feminists who run refuges are on a mission to demonise all men, "emotional abuse" is just whining not real abuse, you know, that sort of thing.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 07/03/2012 07:02

Thank you Justine :)

StewieGriffinsMom · 07/03/2012 07:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Nyac · 07/03/2012 07:46

I'd like to know why Mumsnet was so quick to delete the feminists' posts whilst leaving the invaders to run around willy-nilly.

Because it's a pattern and it seems like an official attitude towards us coming out of Mumsnet.

Attacks on us also aren't deleted often. So much so that I've almost given up reporting those on me. I probably report one in five.

How come F4J got all their demands met, at the expense of us, but we ourselves have to put up with a lot of insults and attacks?

Nyac · 07/03/2012 07:51

I mean F4J come on. Did whoever was on the delete button really not know who they are or the sort of stuff they get up to, or the beliefs they hold?

They're a bunch of misogynist bullies (is that deletion worthy? - I think it's fair comment on a public pressure group) who are all about making the lives of women and children worse not better.

Some of us have been on the receiving end of the kind of attitudes and beliefs that they display as children and are horrified that they are being given any kind of public space at all. Let alone the support they seem to garner from some quarters.

JustineMumsnet · 07/03/2012 08:38

@Nyac

I'd like to know why Mumsnet was so quick to delete the feminists' posts whilst leaving the invaders to run around willy-nilly.

Because it's a pattern and it seems like an official attitude towards us coming out of Mumsnet.

Attacks on us also aren't deleted often. So much so that I've almost given up reporting those on me. I probably report one in five.

How come F4J got all their demands met, at the expense of us, but we ourselves have to put up with a lot of insults and attacks?

We certainly did delete some posts that we shouldn't - but, as said, not all of the deletions were unwarranted - some posts were unfair and/or potentially libellous. As said when you are being bombarded with reports it's not easy. You should come into Mumsnet Towers some time and take a look at what it's like in a firestorm - and I mean that seriously.

You shouldn't just assume that we have let invaders run around willy nilly. It's the usual story, it just takes a bit longer and more investigation to establish who's an invader and who isn't (a day, maybe two) whereas it only takes a second to delete a post. Put another way why do folks always seem to assume that because they can't necessarily see any action, no action is occurring?

We put an awful lot of resource into looking into these things, as it happens. As I understand it we have a larger, paid community management team than pretty much all the big forum sites many of which are more profitable than MN and that team is unbelievably dedicated and fantastic (though not infallible!)

But we're not always going to agree with you that all all reported posts break our guidelines - it comes down to this what's valid debate and what is deliberately provocative wind up guff area and it's not always as clear cut a decision as some folks think.

But this idea that there is a systematic conspiracy/official attitude towards the fems board is way off the mark. I'm a feminist, as I suspect most of MNHQ are. It's just that we are also committed to free speech and debate and wish to allow differing opinions. It's a core tenet of what MN is about.

JustineMumsnet · 07/03/2012 08:39

@StewieGriffinsMom

Thank you Justine.

Are the other posts being reinstated?

I think it's more important to get on with our behind the scenes investigative action - particularly given that now I've posted, the thread makes more sense with it left as is.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 07/03/2012 09:44

I think MN should go take a look at the facebook page too - there is a bonkers strange post on there by someone called Carl. Hmm

solidgoldbrass · 07/03/2012 09:46

OUr facebook page or theirs? I had a go on theirs last night but now -quelle surprise - can't post on it any more.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 07/03/2012 09:56

Ours.

solidgoldbrass · 07/03/2012 10:12

Oh yeah. And I'm banned from posting on that, as well. Look MNHQ how come these fucknuggets are allowed to call women sluts, pigs and liars on MUMSNET's facebook page but I have my posting facility blocked for laughing at them?

Nyac · 07/03/2012 10:15

I do understand that it's not easy to manage, especially when you're getting opinions and demands from all sides Justine.

But when you've actually got a public invasion, from another website with people telling one another to report regular Mumsnetters' posts. is it really not possible not to take a different approach apart from acceding to the invaders requests?

Also, I do think that the feminists are generally ignored by Mumsnet when we point out blatant trolling and concerted attacks, or even attacks on us.

Also it's difficult to read about freedom of speech when it was our posts being deleted.

FrothyDragon · 07/03/2012 10:19

Can we do something about the myths about women lying about abuse on the facebook page, please? It's not helpful, by a long shot.