Agenda, much?

[Malificence]

I don't usually wander onto the MN facebook page but I was pretty horrified to find what looks very much like an MRA agenda posted on there.
I'm trying very hard to see what relevance the photo used for their site has regarding the voices of unheard children. Looks more like how they would like to see their women to me.

www.facebook.com/#!/mumsnet?sk=wall

I'm confused and triggered as fuck atm. What do you mean about the legally compelled bit? Are details being handed over?

There's nothing criminal going on here, so the police wouldn't have jurisdiction.

I can't believe that details are being handed over.

This thread is about to be full btw - I doubt it will be extended by MNHQ.

Do we want a new thread started?

I'm not worried by the F4J campaign against us on here. If anything, they've shot themselves in the foot because the bile some of their members have spewed against women on here would put pretty much any sane person off the organisation.

I'm not worried, I'm not upset, I'm not angry. But I am irritated and disappointed that yet again criticism of women seems to be considered fair game in a way that would never apply to any other 'ism'. I applaud MNHQ's decision not to wade onto the F4J website and do what they've done here for example, as that would simply be stooping to their level. But when it is clearly obvious to anyone with half a braincell that F4J members have been deliberately targetting MN (and this section in particular) in order to cause a row and to accuse women of all sorts of baseless crimes, I expected a better defence. I am disappointed that instead of responding with righteous anger against the attacks on women, F4Js demands were met with appeasement.

Erm, I'm going to revise my recent posts - it's not MNHQ trying to gag us, it's F4J. MNHQ feel compelled to comply because of the SWMNBN stuff?

F4J are dropping their legal nonsense now though - because everyone knows the police chuckled quietly amongst themselves before advising F4J that there was no grounds for complaint. If indeed it ever got as far as the real police, that is.

Are details being handed over?

What details?

Details won't be handed over because NO ONE HAS BROKEN THE LAW.

Have you seen this?

An organisation that's reporting MN to the police are launching an ad campaign with the tagline of 'Child Abuse By Gingerbread.'

I hope they have good legal representation.

In this instance F4J themselves referred to the civil issue of 'liable' often enough to ensure that their beef is clearly outside of police jurisdiction.

But the question still remains, when would MNHQ hand over my name and address - which is also the address of my two children? At what point? Would I even be warned?

As defamation is getting bandied about here, that Gingerbread campaign is definitely defamatory.

@smallwhitecat

I think this is actually quite serious. Helen, please clarify if it is MN policy to hand over member's details on receipt of police request, or if you insist on court order or similar compulsion. Because you know, don't you (please tell me you know) that you don't have to give the coppers stuff just because they ask. Once we know the answer, we will know how to act.

Of course we know.

[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/1422960-If-Fathers-for-Justice-invade-again another thread]]

To move to when this one is full?

For some, the Gingerbread charity is the crumbliest, flakiest charity in the world. For others, it's a charity that supports the abuse of children behind closed doors.

MNHQ, you might want to delete this because it does seem actionable.

I was on Garry the Ad mans list. It still makes me proud

Rather than caving to F4J it might be worth Mumsnet contacting Gingerbread who are facing similar or rather worse attacks on their organisation.

F4J appear to be targeting organisations where mothers may be able to receive support.

It is, of course, hilarious that Gingerbread are the ones being defamed (? doesn't sound right) here. Yet it's the bully boys at you-know-where calling the police and shouting about libel.

@NormaStanleyFletcher

I can't believe that details are being handed over.

This thread is about to be full btw - I doubt it will be extended by MNHQ.

Do we want a new thread started?

Just to be really clear, we haven't handed over anyone's details to any third party. We haven't been asked to. And we have no intention of doing so even if we are.

Our policy is, always has been and remains, that we never hand over anyone's details to a third party without their permission - unless we are specifically and legally compelled to.

oh dear.

so f4j counts as something that can have be personally attacked whereas 'feminists' or 'women' or 'single parents' doesn't from my experience. so saying feminists are a bunch of child abusers is ok (we'd be told it didn't count as a rule break despite being an attack and defammotory - which i can't spell).

is that right HQ? think we need examples of what would count as defammation (can't spell that either) and what wouldn't because i think we're assuming it means we can't be critical and are expected to treat them differently than is the usual standard.

i think it's defammation to say make up complete lies about single mothers and to make up statistics or deliberately misrepresent stats to back up those lies. but i'm guessing given we are not an 'organisation' it's ok. so if i said 1 in 3 f4j is a wife beating pedophile that would be libelous whereas saying single mums stop their ex having contact because they're just after benefits and 1 in 3 children is fatherless that's ok?

i need some clarity on where you're going with this.

Yes, Norma this thread when this is full?

I would like to know under exactly which circumstances MNHQ would hand over to the police or any other party my name and address, given that these could then be obtained by a third party under discovery rules.

Does MNHQ have a written policy on this?

If I don't like it, am I able to make a request to have all my personal details deleted permanently from MNHQ's database, and all my posts deleted, to keep my children safe?

Why are MNHQ not challenging F4J's attacks on us and helping us present a united front? Until MNHQ turned up, it was clear who was on what side.