I need your help

[LordLurkin]

It might seem odd a man coming into a feminist section of mumsnet to ask for help, but I think that this might be the best place to ask.

I was moved to write here after stumbling across this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1413963-Sexual-violence-and-the-cult-of-masculinity

I am the son of a hyper masculine father who only learned to be a real (as in caring and not loutish I hope ) man after meeting my beloved wife 14 years ago. The reason I'm asking you for help is that although I have examined and improved my own views and behavior to a great extent (not perfect by a long shot ) I find the views of a lot of my male friends and associates pretty offensive and downright bloody wrong where women are concerned. There is also a view that seems so prevalent that a man who dosent run with those views is somehow less manly.

When I have spoken out in a group situation about some vile joke or stupid shitty comment I am often met with jeers of "pussywhipped" and similar comments.

What I am asking for is some ideas and help in challenging this stupidity and nastyness in a more effective and lasting way. As you can imagine this seems a daunting task but one I feel needs doing for the good of all, both male and female.

In short I need your input ladies.

Yes, SaF's posts rock.

It's something that's not usually confronted is it - the fact that if men believe in equality, how come we're still so disadvantaged compared to them? How come they're not standing up for it?

Thank you for your answer LordLurkin.

Basil that last question could generate a reply that could take a week to write.

I think the short answer is too many of us men are too damned scared or dont see a need to rock the boat. That or dont give a shit and enjoy the ability to act like turd without censure. I could go on giving reason and excuses for a lot of the attitudes and abuses but I would rather work on challenging and finding solutions.

Im more than happy to rock the damn boat and stand up. But one voice is not enough, thats why I was so pleased to get the link to other resources. If we can get enough men to stand and be counted then there is progress to be made.

No problem Beachcomber.

I have to say, when I was younger, I was in the habit of using language which i suppose is homophobic. It wasn't something I really thought about and was just the lingo at school. Then I moved schools and made friends with a very enlightened girl who, when I would say something inappropriate (I remember saying some guy with a pony tail looked like a poof) would laugh and ask what was wrong with looking like a gay person? And I didn't have an answer because I didn't think there was anything wrong with with gay people but I hadn't thought about the language I was using. Her laughing at my comment didn't damage our relationship at all and got me thinking, I have been reflecting recently about what a good approach she had. Maybe you could do similar.

I think it's because they don't want us to know what they think of us Aviatrix.

If women suspected the level of contempt many men hold us in, it could cause men real trouble. In the past they could speak about us in public with total contempt and if we got annoyed about it, they could just get us to STFU with violence, but that's theoretically not allowed now, so they have to be more polite about us when we're around.

Wankers like the QI lot forget we're watching though. (Actually I'm not watching, but YKWIM)

Topless posters create a hostile working environment for women and the company is unbelievably lax in allowing them.

avia you should demand that the topless posters be removed

The topless poster thing is unacceptable in the workplace. Definitely demand that they are removed.

LordLurkin I often recommend the following blog to men - it is written by a man and he has a pretty good handle on things. You might find some interesting stuff, although it may not directly answer your question, I imagine it is nice to feel that one has company in at least thinking about these things.

nocookiesforme.blogspot.com/

Porn at work?

That really aint on at all. Dont think I could put up with that.

avia, you should be able to do something about that

you needed the pc but there was a porn movie on show ?

speak to your supervisor

threaten to report the whole fucking lot of them

I can see that you are not in an easy position avaia. You shouldn't have to put up with that though. You are allowed in this room as part of your working environment, therefore it is provided for you too and should be a place you feel comfortable in.

The actual watching of a porn movie at work is really bad. If management never use this place they cannot know what is going on - try to tell them.

Avia this is really seriously shit of your employer and they are taking a massive risk by allowing this to go on - it is totally illegal. They are creating an extremely hostile workplace for you and if you took them to an IT if they didn't address it, you would win.

However. You need to complain first and ask them to deal with it discreetly as you don't want to be victimised. If they handle any complaint from you in such a way that it leads to you being victimised and they could have prevented that, you can still sue them.

All the men you work with, know bloody well what they are doing - there have been enough cases for everyone to know what the deal is on this - they know this is out of order and they're banking on you not wanting to rock the boat, to get away with this. What they're doing, is bullying behaviour and they know it.

This is a classic case of what SaF was talking about - men who don't have the balls to stand up to the neanderthals and say it's wrong. My betting is that the majority of the men aren't necessarily that keen on having pictures of half naked women in their working environment either, but they're cowardly specimens too scared of having their masculinity questioned, to get out of that man-box. I expect some of them would respect your stand, that's if your management let them know about it - the management don't have to let them know, but if they do and it leads to unpleasant behaviour, you have legal redress.

You know, it's not just a hostile working environment for a woman - it's a hostile environment for any decent man.

Decent men with no balls, mind.

Thank to everyone on this thread. You ave all given me some good resources to work with and some helpful guidance.

Much appreciated. Thanks