That school that is implanting girls with hormonal contraception without their parents knowing...

[BasilRathbone]

... that is a feminist issue, is it not?

Hormonal contraception can have very serious side effects. They are having 13 year old girls injected with them, I'm not sure whether they ask these girls first, if they are actually having sex and wanting sex.

I feel very disturbed by this, it smacks of contracepting girls ready for boys to fuck them without having to negotiate other ways of sexual activity, contraception, consent issues etc. Also where is the protection from sexually transmitted diseases in this approach to tackling teen pregnancy, where is the regard for the girl's long term health, where is the discussion around whether they actually want to be penetrated by boys at this stage of their lives and whether the sex they are having is truly consensual?

Would they inject boys with hormonal contraception with such alacrity?

What do you lot think?

I wouldn't wqnt my dd to have a contraceptive implant without my knowledge. However, I would much rather she did than she got pregnant and had to contemplate an abortion with nor without my knowledge.

It's true that there is no clear cut answer, but I've a feeling that this implant is just the government's way of offering a short term solution to cutting down teenage pregnancies in that particular area. What they need to do is set up some wider social projects that offer counselling services for young women, a safe haven perhaps where they can get free contraception and advice and also help to get onto courses and out of the vicious cycle they might find themselves in. The drink problem also needs to be tackled and I'd like to see schools teaching more about respect for each other and the boys responsibilities. Oh and a huge crackdown on porn on the internet and very clear guidelines printed about hormonal contraception including side effects.

That will do for starters. This is a huge problem that needs many strategies put in place to tackle it.

I agree. But let's stop them getting pregnant while we're how society's getting it wrong!

You have some flawed logic...why are all 13yr girls having sex automatically viewed as being abused, i'm sure healthcare professionals in this field have training to spot signs of abuse.

I'm not entirely convinced that 13yr abused girls would be going to the nurse themselves, my thinking is that the abuser would not want them approaching anybody in authority in case they divulged the abuse. I thought abusers like to isolate victims from friends, family, people in positions of authority so they can perpetrate the abuse indefinetly. I'll stand corrected if i'm wrong

I dont mean to devalue your experience and those of the other woman but i'm not going to base a whole arguement of preventing hormonal contraception on the basis of a few MNers, i'd need a lot more facts and figures and I stand by my assertion that hormonal contraception is adequate for the majority of woman. It's hard when you fall into a minority but I wouldn't pull the rug from under the feet of the majority neither i'd just accept it wasn't suitable for me personally

I find it very very concerning. Haven't read the whole thread - has anyone mentioned that this injection does not protect against AIDS and other STI's?

Princess - yes.
bakingaddict, you misunderstand me. I have not said that ALL 13yo are abused, but as the law stands they are not at an age where they can be deemed to have given consent.

I would not like to say about patterns of abuse, but as already stated I'm not limiting this to abuse within the family. Abuse is also considered where a young girl is coerced into sex by boyfriends or is regularly getting drunk and sleeping with boys.

I'll give a personal example. My very troubled niece was 12/13 when she started drinking. I make no excuse for her parents since they often bought the drinks for her. At the age of 13 she was being picked up, unconscious, in parks by the police and taken home. I have no doubt that she has slept with boys - but given consent whilst pissed? I doubt it. She is now 14 but at 13 she looked and acted 16 yet her immaturity was evident.

And as for mental health and the pill, well I would like to see some studies taken because I've a feeling that a lot of the side effects go unreported. Those of suffering depression may well be in a minority but I would have thought that the risks for an already hormonal teenager would be higher? And even if we are in the minority, is it not worth highlighting those risks for that minority? I am not saying and have never said that they should not be given hormonal contraception, what I am saying is that it should be given with caution, taking into account the mother's medical history too if necessary and with consultation with the family GP.

I am erring on the side of caution and my whole point is that this will simply not solve the problem of teenage pregnancy. There needs to be more done to solve the wider issues.

I remember watching a programme about the trialling of these implants on women in poverty in India. The impact of the side effects was horrific and once they were in, HCPs refused to remove them, or in some cases were unable to remove them even when the three years was up because they had become too far embedded to remove in a cheap and easy way. I hope that things have improved since then.

These implants may now be appropriate for older women, but I cannot see that it is appropriate to implant hormones in girls who are still going through puberty, regardless of which adult, including parents, have agreed to it. It is clear that they still don't have enough research into the long term implications of these implants, although they do know it increases the risk of breast cancer, but how reliable is the assessment of that risk at the moment given the small amount of research done? I don't think there is enough research to justify giving the drugs to girls who haven't completed the physical and psychological processes of puberty.

I also don't believe this will be done entirely within ideas of the individual's autonomy. If a girl has the implant at 15, and then turns up saying she wants it removed at 16 because she wants to get pregnant, will HCP's just remove it, or are they going to feel that they can refuse treatment as some kind of social engineering and prejudice against young mothers?

The comments from the professor who proposed this for 13 year olds, including 'if they can't be good they can at least be careful' are disgusting.

Rhubarb - but the nurse cannot keep teenagers who are going "off the rails" safe 24 hours a day. That's the parents' repsonsibility.

If the parents are having difficulty with that, then the nurse can offer a chance to talk about things and a degree of protection from the otherwise inevitable consequences which only apply to teenage girls not to the boys. From the perspetive of the health authority, which cannot control wider social change and family problems the important this is to give those girls the best possible chance of reaching womanhood as healthy and the the most life-chances possible.

What is your solution for these girls? Not the idealistic view of them not getting into that position, which is what the schools and health authorities would love to happen, but the actual solution when the girls are going out, getting drunk and having sex whilst underage.

I have sympathy for your niece but if it's two 13yr olds having sex then it's very rarely becomes a police matter regardless of the laws' position

Unless we are 13yr girls seeking contraception we have no idea what discussions take place and what advice is imparted by the healthcare professional so your arguement becomes a matter of conjecture and I'm not sure how many 13yr girls will be on Mumsnet to inform us otherwise

I'm sure there must be age appropriate talk of after-care like going to GP if you feel ill or have unusual symptoms as all healthcare professionals have a duty of care, but having to first consult with the family GP is not viable, surely if the girl has to jump thru this many hoops they'll she'll just decide not to bother and you condemn young girls into bringing up babies they're ill-equipped to do so. Of course there is wider issues to solve but first you also have to deal with the 'here and now'

Again, I don't claim to know exactly what to do in this situation and I realise that the nurse cannot offer an adequate solution either.

I just don't think that encouraging young adolescent girls to have hormonal contraceptive implants is the best way of going about this. I can understand the arguments for this method, but there are also many strong arguments against that need to be taken into consideration. This should not ever be seen as a solution against teenage pregnancies and it should not be offered imo to young girls without a full examination of their medical history and ensuring they have a complete understanding (at the age of 13?) of all the possible side effects.

It's a sad state of affairs in our society that we have to resort to this.

Rhubarb I do see your point and I dont think any of us know how to truly solve this universal problem

I guess deep down we're all just anxious mothers and we want to remain a part of our child's life even when they're taking their first adult steps, protect them, impart all the wisdom and experience we can and shield them from life's more unsavoury aspects, how we achieve that is what's open to debate

I think no-one can argue with that bakingaddict

my DD had the implant fitted at 15 .. i was aware she was having it done, and she was told all about the side effects, she was given leaflets first on all types of contraception and they talked in detail about how each would effect her .. I did know about it, but even if i hadnt i would of been happy she had it done rather than her coming home telling me she was pregnant :)

ment to add that around the time she was 13/14 it was a common thing amongst her friends to get the implant.. not because they were sexually active or wanted to be .. bt for the reason of the side effect of it stopping your periods.. Once one girl got it in they all wanted it .. she only took so long to get hers cos shes afraid of needles

"ment to add that around the time she was 13/14 it was a common thing amongst her friends to get the implant.. not because they were sexually active or wanted to be .. bt for the reason of the side effect of it stopping your periods.. "

Really??????- 13 year olds having a hormone implant to stop their periods??????? And their mothers were happy with that?

Just to answer some questions

...Maybe MsCorleone can shed some light on that. MsC, as with any professional who comes into contact with children, you are obviously obliged to report any suspicion of sexual abuse to SS, but does your remit stop at a girl actually telling you that she is being abused, or are you allowed to question them gently about the circumstances of why they need contraception?

We do gently question around the circumstances and if there is any suggestion that the young person hasn't consented to sex or is being abused or exploited then appropriate referrals are made to children's services and/or the police. In my area we have a special team which works with vulnerable girls who are being/or are at risk of sexual exploitation. Work will be undertaken by the nurse around self esteem and delay over a number of weeks if this is deemed appropriate.

If a 13 year old presented for contraception then I would have to be certain that they fully understood and had the capacity to consent. 13 is very young and therefore I would have to be satisfied that they met all the criteria. If a young person explained circumstances in which I felt they were at risk or they were being harmed then I would break confidentiality and share that information with relevant agencies and parents if appropriate. Confidentiality is explained at the very start of the consultation.

As fossil says a large number of the young people I work with are very vulnerable and are often in child protection arenas all ready.However I do occasionally see young people who present at the clinic or drop in with their partner and they have given careful consideration to having a sexual relationship.

There are a vast number of problems and as I said before they won't be solved overnight. We try to address the immediate and necessary first...this might include emergency contraception, hormonal contraception, condoms and information...then we can work on the wider issues such as increasing self esteem and opening their eyes to the exploitation.

Because these girls are under the age of consent I ensure they are aware that they are breaking the law, encourage them to discuss with parents and will even accompany them to speak to parents if needed. I have very strict guidance to adhere to in order to be working within the law, therefore I have to fully explain the side effects and explore their medical history. I hold comprehensive records about young people from birth as they are passed onto school nurses. I can also contact their GP for information if appropriate. My main concern is their health and wellbeing!

I need to read the rest of the thread but I definately agree with the issues raised around alcohol and drugs and I also explore those issues and make referrals for help if needed. As mentioned porn is a huge factor, alot of young men can access porn on their mobiles etc and have a very skewed view of sex and relationships.

Ms Corelone: You know they are breaking the law but you ask them to talk to their parents despite the fact that they are in family breakdown situations.

Sorry, your post fills me with dread.

Actually the law says that the health practitioner should encourage the young person to discuss the consultation with parents. Obviously if doing that put them at risk I wouldn't do that, not all of my clients are in those situations!

I'll leave this thread now, it feels like you are deliberately misunderstanding my posts.

Your main concern is their health and wellbeing.

Filling them, with a minor surgical device from the age of 13, full of chemical hormones (that is passed onto the environment), that may make them depressed, depress their libido, make them put on weight, give them self esteem issues and further endanger their lives.

I hate HATE to be on Nadine dories side (can't stand) but you are fuelling her cause.

Putting the pressure onto women means that they are the gateholders of sexuality. Men are the ones who are fertile 24/7. They should be the first target. You are running to a religious script. Think about it.

Please.

Dworkin I don't actually fit implants as it happens however all contraception comes with potention side effects etc which is why anybody considering one is fully assessed.

How am I putting pressure onto women? Tell me how you would approach this then? What is your experience & knowledge in this area?

The young girls present to you as saying what? Listen miss I need a contraceptive that works cause I don't want to get pregnant?

How do they come to you, at thirteen and ask that question? They sit outside your room and you bring them in. Is that they have already had the morning after pill?

How do you know this is what happens? You're assuming alot!
They are not all 13 and they don't all want contraception. I don't understand your question regarding emergency contraception or the morning after pill as you call it.

This all depends on the close relationship that parents have with their child. My daughter came to me when she had a first serious bf, ok she was 16 and didn't need my permission, but she wanted to discuss it, how to make a doctors appointment, what she should ask for, what options of contraception, the most important thing is that they are safe, I probally spent more time talking to her about the emotional side of it, you know the first time, in a loving relationship etc. Noone expects it to last a life time but at least not a casual thing. Emotion has to be taken into account.

But the whole point of the OP was that a contraceptive device, involving minor surgery, was being fitted to thirteen year old girls. You are the school nurse. How does this happen?

stephrick that's how it happened in my house. My daughter is no longer on the pill.