That school that is implanting girls with hormonal contraception without their parents knowing...

[BasilRathbone]

... that is a feminist issue, is it not?

Hormonal contraception can have very serious side effects. They are having 13 year old girls injected with them, I'm not sure whether they ask these girls first, if they are actually having sex and wanting sex.

I feel very disturbed by this, it smacks of contracepting girls ready for boys to fuck them without having to negotiate other ways of sexual activity, contraception, consent issues etc. Also where is the protection from sexually transmitted diseases in this approach to tackling teen pregnancy, where is the regard for the girl's long term health, where is the discussion around whether they actually want to be penetrated by boys at this stage of their lives and whether the sex they are having is truly consensual?

Would they inject boys with hormonal contraception with such alacrity?

What do you lot think?

[readyveg]

Condoms are still pushed, massively as belt and braces. They aren't as effective contraception though especially if used carelessly without spermicide, they are quite likely to leave a busily sexually active teen pregnant. Also lots of partners will refuse to use them or pretend to use them.

Actually teens even when drinking heavily, using drugs, sharing partners often decline any hormonally related contraceptive because they don't like to put 'chemicals' in their body. The number of 13 year olds on implants will be tiny, the number of 16 year olds will still be pretty low.

[ReallyTired]

Its bad enough getting a teen to wear a coat yet alone a condom. Teens forget everything and I think a long term contraception injection will prevent them getting pregnant.

If you want your teen to tell you whats going on with their health then the TWO of you need to work at your relationship.

[SinicalSanta]

if a teen isn't mature enough to wear a coat, never mind a condom, despite the clear consequences of not doing so, they are not mature enough to engage in sexual relationships. That's the point of the age of consent, imperfect instrument as it is.
Long term contraception is only papering over the cracks.

yes I know a lot will do it anyway, but it's hardly what we should be aiming for.

[readyveg]

Broader social change might be a goal but if 'the cracks aren't papered over' then the result leaves teens facing pregnancy and abortion when they may well have chosen not too.

I hardly think we should be aiming to punish this group by denying them access to a full range of contraception. I think we should aim to allow them to protect themselves from pregnancy or the alternative continues the historic punitive approach to sexually active or pregnant young women.

[Dworkin]

I agree with Basil, especially the would they inject boys with such alacrity. Women are not seen as human beings but are being treated like cattle.

It's disgusting and for once, though I did shout hypocrite several times, I agreed with Nadine Dorries on radion 4 this morning.

[KatieScarlett2833]

Meh

What is more dangerous to a young girls health

Pregnancy or an Implant?

Teenage girls WILL have sex whether or not we all agree about it. Far better they are not at risk of becoming pregnant (and use condoms too).

[Dworkin]

There's also a risk of HPV related cancers (if we are talking risk factors). Both pregnancy and the Pill have the added complications of death too. The pill lowers libido, can cause headaches, and put extra weight on all of which can lead to depression and/or eating disorders. But so long as the boys get their shagging practise in we'll all ignore it.

Boys should be sterilised at the onset of puberty, their sperm stored and they should also be vaccinated for HPV. They should be instructed at all times to use a condom and that women's sexuality is a much more pleasurable experience for the woman than it is men.

Bring back dry humping I say and put the focus on pleasure.

[BasilRathbone]

What's more of a risk to her health?

Pregnancy or a STD like HIV/AIDS?

I just don't like the short term, OK it would be better if they could persuade their boyfs to wear condoms and not do PIV before they are ready to, but this will paper over the cracks in the short term aspect of it.

Feminism is about getting long term solutions for women, not short term papering over the cracks, isn't it?

[mumwithdice]

TheRhubarb, I had no idea about depression and microgynon but you can add me to your list of women who had both.

[sportsfanatic]

So a mature woman is one who doesn't have sex at all unless she is prepared to have a child, is that what you're saying?

No. That is not what I said. I was talking about a 14 year old. A mature 14 year old is one who 1) understands that no contraceptive is perfect 2) therefore she has a small risk of pregnancy 3) therefore there is risk she could be faced with a child or an abortion 4) therefore she could be facing an interruption to her education which may damage her prospects in life and ability to earn her own living and be independent 5) therefore she may have to crawl back to Mum and Dad for help if she has been one of those teenagers who has had contraception secretly (not very mature).

Sposh - yes we all know about raging hormones. I do remember. But it doesn't mean you have to give in to them right away. I don't think that being a victim to rampaging oestrogen is a sign of maturity at all. Just because someone is physically mature does not mean they are emotionally mature.

Maybe I am showing my age . I am deffo not one of the "I want it so therefore I must have it now" generation whether it's the latest trainers, an Iphone or sex.

I concede therefore that I am clearly an old fart!

[KatieScarlett2833]

14 year old girls have sex.

And are daft as they are only 14, therefore they will probably be having unsafe sex at the very least occasionally

We do not get to decide an appropriate day/age/time when our DD's will start having/continue to have sex. They do.

If they are savvy enough to want an implant they should be able to get one.

[BasilRathbone]

It's not the savvy ones that are going to get them though is it. It's the more vulnerable ones who can be bullied by medical professionals to use the form of contraception the medical professionals deem appropriate, not the girls themselves, and by their boyfriends to have PIV sex when they may not actually be all that up for it.

I don't think we can just wash our hands of that. I get what people are saying: viz girls having the right to choose their own contraception without their parent's permisison, absolutely; viz papering over the cracks and having a short term solution, yes, I understand that in most (though not all) cases this is a solution that will be better than the alternative. But a feminist solution, particularly in the context that 1 in 3 teenage girls experience violence in their relationships (so guess how much sexual autonomy they're likely to have) it ain't and I think it needs pointing out.

[margoandjerry]

I want to be ok with this but it doesn't seem right. It's such a massive leap from primary school where my daughter is not even allowed to apply a lipsalve to her own lips without a letter from the dr so insistent are they on parental permission to suddenly at thirteen they can have minor surgery and be made ready to embark on sexual activity without any discussion at all.

I see what they are trying to achieve but I agree with the OP - they wouldn't do this to boys (and haven't).

[readyveg]

I don't really think that preventing unwanted pregnancies is papering over cracks. Failure to engage with issues like this immediately and practically damages the lives of many if these girls. There is ongoing harm to their children in many cases. It disproportionately disadvantages girls who come from poorer backgrounds.

Their lives shouldn't be blighted with early and unwanted pregnancy and the great problems that can bring whilst we theorise about social and cultural change. Change that can, in any case happen along side contraception that doesn't compel anyone to have sex.

[TheRhubarb]

Why are we so keen to prevent pregnancies and yet not so keen to prevent STDs and educating boys about their role in all of this.

Many STIs can affect a woman's fertility and of course HIV is still a problem. These are problems that can stay with a woman for ever. Pregnancy does have choices at least, but unless caught early, an STI is a permanent problem.

And of course it just tells boys that hey, contraception is the girls problem and so there's no need for them to carry a condom around, right?

[DilysPrice]

I disagree with the claim that condoms are side effect free. If twenty teenage couples use condoms as contraception for a year then you'll get an average of three pregnancies at the end of it, which counts as a major side effect in my book. If the same twenty couples use the implant then you'd expect zero pgs.
But of course the STD risk is higher in the implant group (although condoms don't protect well at all against HPV and they're not perfect against other STDs). It's not even restricted to PIV sex, having just seen the new oral HPV cancer statistics.
I don't know what the answer is, but I would start by heavily publicising the fact that most people are still virgins on their sixteenth birthday, and high proportions remain that way until they are 18.

[MsCorleone]

BasilRathbone I have just started to read this thread and I stopped after seeing your comment about 'nitty nora types' ... I'm a school nurse and I am insulted at that description

Just to educate you, these 'nitty nora types' are registered nurses with additional skills, knowledge and experience in the administration of contraception. These young people are not just injected with contraception without a full assessment of their health and capacity to give 'informed' consent.

The circumstances around the reasons they are requesting contraception is fully explored I and ensure they are fully aware of the law. I also encourage them to discuss their consultation with me with their parents, however if they are deemed to be competent then they are entitled to confidential advice and treatment. Nurses are trained in the recognition of sexual exploitation and would make appropriate referrals if required.

Any young person from the age of 13 years old can consent to treatment but not refuse treatment according to the law. This means they can consent to immunisations etc

I am now off to read the thread in full

[AyeRobot]

Have to ponder this a bit more, but it seems that there has been a breakthrough as far as male contraception is concerned In fact, it was discovered 40 years ago but not pursued

Make males infertile until they are, what, 16? Whilst there is still the STI issue to contend with, but this sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? Much better than the alternative. Will be interesting to see the popular reaction to a less risky male equivalent to what society deems OK for young women.

Another one who didn't get on with microgynon but didn't know it until after I came off it. I was actually put on the pill at 11 because I was getting periods every 2 weeks, but I didn't know I was until I worked it out for myself in my 20s.

[MsCorleone]

Well the more I read the worse it gets!

The school is just the venue, the service is provided by the NHS. I have no interest in forcing any young person into having a hormonal contraceptive I deem most appropriate for them, I give them information and talk them through their choices and they choose.

If they can't understand the information given then they won't be deemed frazier competent. A young person attending for this service would be fully informed about the side effects etc. The documentation is very comprehensive as the nurse/doctor has to be able to demonstrate why they deemed that young person competent etc.

Nurses work with young people around delaying sexual activity and increasing self esteem. I am so sad to read some of the comments on this thread, as a nurse I only ever have the young persons best interests in mind.

Maybe there are too many people reading the Daily Mail

[BasilRathbone]

Sorry to offend you MsC, it wasn't intentional.

The thread's moved on since then, there is actually a discussion later which points out that actaully, medical professionals don't inform women of the potential side effects, often because they don't know them. You have to do quite a lot of your own research to find out the potential harmful effects of hormonal contraception. So we're wondering if girls are given more info than grown women.

That's a really interesting link Aye. I wasn't aware of that one, I know there is a male pill out there that was coming back with the same or better (can't remember) results as the female pill, but that they abandoned it because they just didn't want to unleash it onto the market (some guff about men wouldn't take it, women wouldn't trust them etc. Interesting that they didn't think it worth marketing even though lots of men have expressed interest in it).

[MsCorleone]

It's ok Basil but the nitty nora image pisses us school nurses off alot

I completely agree that adult women often get less information than they should and I have experienced that first hand. I would say that because it actually isn't that easy to just give contraception to an under 16 year old the practitioner has to ensure that young person understands. I have to make sure they fully understand and can verbally explain back to me what I have told them.

I would be upset if my kids accessed this service and I didn't know but not all kids have good parental support. I also work with alot of young people who are sexually exploited, an unplanned pregnancy would only add to the complexity of the lives they lead. Contraception won't solve those issues but it will prevent a pregnancy whilst we work with them on the problems that can't be addressed over night such as self esteem.

[AyeRobot]

Imagine the possibilities of a contraceptive with the sole side effect of warm bollocks for a few minutes. I really hope the science bods get the funding to continue the research. The AIBU threads will be interesting too.

[KatieScarlett2833]

And some do not want to disappoint their parents. Their perception, not the reality.

I thank for God the nurse who gave my daft, immature DD the implant age 14.

[BasilRathbone]

So HCP's never bully teenage girls about contraception, the way they bully women who have just had babies then?

Good.

[MsCorleone]

Basil I'm sure some do but I don't! You can't make assumptions about a whole profession just because you have experienced something. I would suggest you check out The British Youth Council's recent consultation document which reports on young people's views on School Nurses. They want us to provide these services!

www.byc.org.uk/media/75447/byc_school_nurse_report_web.pdf