Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

HARROGATE

106 replies

MrsClown · 18/01/2012 11:18

Does anyone live near or visit Harrogate. I do not live there but I recently booked some theatre tickets for the theatre in Harrogate and find it is practically next door to a strip club!!!! I contacted Harrogate Council to comment on how rediculous it is and they have informed me that the closing date for objections is 26 January 2012. I wondered if anyone else would be willing to write to the licensing department at Harrogate Council to object. I mean, I did not really want to have to attend the theatre with my family next to part of the sex trade!

Please go on the OBJECT website which gives ideas on wording and further advice regarding objections to these establishments.

OP posts:
TonyN · 21/02/2012 21:10

Krit you may be right so be intersting when the figures come out to see exactly where they have been spending and where their money has come from. I am not into company law as I have only been managing director of one ltd company and it was definately for profit.

Tunip I don't have a strip bar in easy distance of me, wish I did as they are great for having a good night out. However judge me as you wish, it gives me a good laugh.

LindenAvery · 21/02/2012 21:19

Tony - why do you think it is ok to pay a woman to remove her underwear in front of you and dance and why do you feel you are entitled to do this?

TonyN · 21/02/2012 21:32

Entitlement is an interesting comment. The only thing I am entitled to is breathing. I see it as a form of entertainment, I pay for that entertainment but only because the dancer is willing to provide it. They have chosen to work at a venue and I get enjoyment from the beauty of the female form. Most men, if they are honest, enjoy looking at women. If men did not find women attractive the world of Mumsnet would be very empty. I enjoy seeing women dance naked or clothed. I enjoy art with people in and most art features women. I have never hit a woman and been violent. I have never felt the urge to force myself on someone and do not condone any act of violence. It is interesting as been in contact with a male stripper who has work joint venues and he has far more issues than any female dancer.

Nyac · 21/02/2012 21:38

Just because you haven't been actually physically violent doens't mean that paying to sexually exploit women is OK. It's not. You should stop.

Also you getting enjoyment from what you do is a bit of a euphemism. Men paying to see women strip for them, or to lapdance for them, is so they can wank to the experience, either during or afterwards.

You talk about women as if they are things Tony. It's very unpleasant.

LindenAvery · 21/02/2012 21:41

How do you really know that they are willing to provide it? Not coerced? Or do you simply assume because they are doing it they are doing it willingly? Are you willing to accept that paying for a lap dance is a sexual service ?

TonyN · 21/02/2012 22:01

You can't get sexual gratification at a venue, they would be shut if they offered that. And I have never gone home and played with myself. So Nyac I dont get sexual gratification. I do find the experience erotic but then seeing some ballets can be as exciting. And Nyac no they are not things, they are people and if you want to help them you should be campaigning to protect them in the workplace in terms of standardised regulations.

And I know Linden as I had a friend who ran a strip bar and over the years I have met maybe 1000 dancers. I can safely say I haven't met one who didn't want to do it. And if a dancer tried any sort of provision of sexual service she would have been fired and no venue manager would run the risk of having their business closed. The whole point is lap dance is a name with no meaning as the dancer performs 3 ft away, not sure how you can have any sort of sexual contact over 3 feet.

parakeet · 21/02/2012 22:03

Dear Tony - do you really think someone working in the sex industry would give an honest account of it to one of her punters? That's not exactly going to be good for business.

Can you imagine it? "Yeah, to be honest, I hate this job, and I'm only doing it to put on the table for my kids, now go on dear, slip a twenty into my knickers and I'll take off my bra."

Nyac · 21/02/2012 22:12

I think you're in a minority Tony. These clubs make their money from erections.

I said you talk about the women you pay for as if they are things. I don't think women are things for men's use which is why I think that strip clubs, lapdancing clubs and the like should be outlawed. The way they have been in Iceland.

KRITIQ · 21/02/2012 22:51

Tony, you can get a copy of the audited accounts of any Limited Company from Companies House. Just go to their website. It's all perfectly transparent - so no need to suggest they are or are trying to hide anything.

Been a director and company secretary for probably all together about 8 or 10 companies going back well over 15 years. "Managing Director" is just a title, so doesn't really mean anything. But, if you are a director of a company (limited or otherwise,) you need to have a good working knowledge of charity law. If you fall foul of it, pleading ignorance is no excuse and won't prevent you from being fined, imprisoned or your own personal assets being drawn on if an unwise or unlawful decision was taken by the Board of directors that results in financial loss.

Just sayin.

(Not arsed enough to engage on any other issue though with someone who appears to regard the purchase of women as any more unethical than buying a gerbil from Pets at Home.)

(Come to think of it, buying a gerbil from a pet shop isn't terribly ethical, but I digress.)

HarrietSchulenberg · 21/02/2012 23:03

I have a vision of Harrogate strippers as being something like the Marcus Brigstock and James Bachman characters from I'm Sorry I've Got No Head.

Sorry, completely irrelevant but had to throw it in. As you were everyone ...

TonyN · 22/02/2012 07:08

Parakeet I had written it elsewhere before the whole thread was deleted, I am friends with dancers outside of the industry including being invited to weddings, invited to their houses (and once again no not as a customer) met their boyfriends and husbands. Guess I know nothing then pmsl.

As to the company records Object incorporation date has meant their first figures will be April this year. And as soon as they have been made available there will be people asking for them.

KRITIQ · 22/02/2012 08:18

Won't be any skin off Object's collective nose to file accounts, so what's with the Maltese Falcoln stylie 'gonna investigate stance?' They have nothing to hide. I think you'll be surprised how small they are, and how modest their income and outgoings are.

You are of course quite happy to make you're company's accounts available to all who ask as well, right?

TonyN · 22/02/2012 08:28

I would have had no problem when I was working.

Just be interested to see exactly where Object gets money apart from the grants. And how those grants match up to the work Object is doing.

KRITIQ · 22/02/2012 11:37

Well Tony, if you could be bothered, rather than shit stirring, you could have looked on Object's website at their 2009-10 Annual Report to get an idea of funding for that year and what was expected in the year to come.

In that year, they got the following:

£10,000 grant from Allen Lane Foundation for the Demand Change Campaign
£5,000 from Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust for the Joining the Dots project
£2,000 from Unison Women's Committee to produce educational materials
£6,000 in member subscriptions
£14,000 from donations and fundraising activities (e.g. comedy nights, sponsored runs, jumble sales, that sort of thing - including a £1000 donation from Garden Court Chambers Social Fund.)

That adds up to £37,000 - hardly a princely sum when you think if the vast resources available within the for-profit porn, strip clubs, etc. industry!

According to the report, they expected to receive two new grants in 2010-11 that they would receive for a total of two years:

£50,000 from Trust for London for their education and campaigning work related to lap dancing clubs.
£25,000 from Esme Fairbairn towards core and strategic costs.

All this info is available on their site and on the respective funders' websites. Nothing is secret, so stop suggesting it is.

Like most small voluntary organisations, they are only able to do what they do because so many folks volunteer their time and resources to support them. They have few paid staff to co-ordinate the thing and tend to the admin, finance, regulatory, etc. stuff. The fact that they literally operate on a shoestring, yet achieve so much (and frighten people like you so much!) is a testament to the heartfelt commitment of the men and women involved in the organisation. It's hardly surprising they've won do many awards for their work. Amazing stuff.

TonyN · 22/02/2012 11:43

Well considering what is on the stripping illusion blog about Objet think a lot of people will be questioning Grin Been quite a bit added about the glorious Object.

TonyN · 22/02/2012 11:44

LMAO sorry about the typo think everyone will know I meant Object.

MrsClown · 22/02/2012 12:04

Tony - I am one of the volunteers who ran for OBJECT. Some of us can see the wood for the trees. You say you wish you had a strip club near you as it is a good night out. Thank God my husband can enjoy a good night out without having to buy a woman.

Kritiq - THANK YOU for your amazing blog. I couldnt put it any better.

OP posts:
TonyN · 22/02/2012 13:00

Awww MrsClown having read what some of the volunteers of Object have done in the past you sure you wanted to admit that? Head to stripping the illusion by chasmal and find out a little more about the organisation you rave about.

KRITIQ · 22/02/2012 14:40

You really must assume we are idiots Tony.

It's an easy one for me. I'd far rather associate with the board and volunteers of Object (many of whom believe it or not, I actually know!) than anyone who believes it's a great thing to buy women, let alone those who profit handsomely from trading women.

Funny Mrs Clown, my DH and I manage to have a great time without patronising such establishments as well. Who'd have thunk it, eh?

MrsClown · 22/02/2012 15:32

I am happier to admit I am a member of OBJECT than admitting that you think it is ok to buy a woman. I actually know some of the other volunteers and board members and I am so proud to be associated with them. Infact, Tony, I said to one of them that I thought I was the only one in the UK who did not want the sex trade on my high street and HIS reply was 'Dont worry you have been shouted down by the loud mouth minority!' and here you are!

Awww Tony!

OP posts:
TonyN · 22/02/2012 15:55

Dont worry I understand the designer feminist has no idea of the real world.

KRITIQ · 22/02/2012 16:01

snort

TonyN · 22/02/2012 17:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

MrsClown · 23/02/2012 09:12

Tony - you are typical of the type of man that I have been dealing with for years and years. You will never change. The difference between you and me (the feminist) is I have not become offensive or patronised you. You just cant help yourelf can you. The old, old male way, if you are losing the argument try to offend the woman. I guess it would be easier for you if I just sat and smiled!

By the way, what is a designer feminist, in your opinion. Can I ask you how old you are.

OP posts:
TonyN · 23/02/2012 09:37

Read the blog it gives your a good idea of what a designer feminist is.

As for your arguments I have answered the same questions and statements 8 times across 3 threads (one of which was deleted). Become boring hearing the same blame statement about buying women. I go to be entertained the same as a film or theatre or Ballet or concert, the entertainer earns their living from their performance which I pay for the privilage of watching. There is no sex involved it is about making a fantasy for a short period and both parties know that. And remember films/plays/ballet all create a fantasy for a short time. And I guess if the film, play or ballet involves people being naked you are against that but the performer has decided they are willing to perform that way and it is their choice. What right have you to decide what other people can do?