HARROGATE

[MrsClown]

Does anyone live near or visit Harrogate. I do not live there but I recently booked some theatre tickets for the theatre in Harrogate and find it is practically next door to a strip club!!!! I contacted Harrogate Council to comment on how rediculous it is and they have informed me that the closing date for objections is 26 January 2012. I wondered if anyone else would be willing to write to the licensing department at Harrogate Council to object. I mean, I did not really want to have to attend the theatre with my family next to part of the sex trade!

Please go on the OBJECT website which gives ideas on wording and further advice regarding objections to these establishments.

Fortunately I am happy doing what I am doing, even if the main posters dont change their minds (and I don't expect them too) it is the fringe supporters that we are targeting to get them to question what is going on. I don't expect volunteers or paid up members of object to change their minds. No argument no matter how logically will get moralists to cease judging others and I dont mean me but dancers.

As for cooking and cleaning have enough of that as it is no need for me to talk about it.

But I would like to thank some of the designer feminists on here, lessons have been learned and that was part of the exercise

Obviously this thread has moved on from the op and is now all about tony whose views are a bit niche to say the least.

But I just wanted to say that as a resident of Harrogate I detest the presence of a strip club on the high street where my dcs can see it. I have never done anything about it. This thread has spurred me on to write to the council to complain.

enough cooking and cleaning, but not enough lap dances, then, presumably?

and here i was thinking it was all totally altruistic. it was your contention that cleaners were in a far worse position than sex workers, tony. not mine.

priorities, and all that. i think we all know where yours lie.

trice, that's great. can you encourage the rest of the silent majority in harrogate to do the same?

Would be a good idea trice except the letters etc should have been in last month.

And Mad haven't been to a venue for a few months, probably why I am only contributing a little to the campaign. But been able to be online most of the time and not bothered by the attempts to bully and cajole me it has given me a great deal of amusement to debate what seems to be a moral issue. Thank heaven the law on SEVs says no moral considerations will impact on decisions. So off to relax with a good book and check in later to see what has been said. Now remember Mumsnet is open to all to read without being a member which has added to the fun.

Ohhh and while I think of it a special thanks goes to CoventryWomensVoices you gave a lot to think about and research. It has really helped polarise an issue or two.

no cricket on then?

you'd be amazed which forums mners frequent. i'm not really sure whether that was supposed to be some sort of veiled threat or not, really. either way the 'now remember' was irrationally patronising. almost as though you believe women are in some way inferior?

as far as i know the internet is pretty wide open. i could refer you to some really interesting articles on internet research and ethics if your book gets a bit boring. glad you're having fun rather than taking the issue seriously anyway.

cajole you? must have been a different site. cajoling is what i do with my children when they are being recalcitrant. you apparently are a fully grown adult who knows his own mind.

enjoy your book.

trice, the fact that the official deadline ahs passed is something of a misfortune. i would have thought that the more people who make their feelings felt about strip clubs on the high street the better though, really. it might enable the powers that be to make different decisions in the future. or even reverse the current decisions in light of public opinion.

We are pleased to announce MrsClown made the blog.

'Designer feminists' just sounds stupid. Not snappy or clever.

meh. still not adding to the blog traffic. soz.

thanks for popping back to see if you could get any more attention, anyway. needy, much?

We are pleased to announce we couldn't give a flying wotsits.

Tony - you judge me as middle class, have further education, good back ground. You dont even know me. However, for your information I was brought up on a northern council estate, left school with no qualifications etc etc. The one thing I have though is common sense and a sense of what is right and wrong.

Iceland have stopped selling women so it can work.

Trice - it is people like you who make it worth receiving the abuse from 'people' like Tony. Thank you. Dont hesitate to contact your council - you have rights too, and so do your children not to be exposed to the sex trade. The world does not have to revolve around men's sexuality.

And the world does not revolve around your morality.

Tony - my husband is wondering if you are Pervy (sorry Peter) Stringfellow.

You mean you let him have a thought ??? WOW

Mrs Clown, seriously, don't bother with Tony. He appears only to be here to promote his blog, to make presumptions about other posters while whining like crazy that everyone isn't taking his "expertise" on the issue as written and just being generally insulting and patronising.

Some folks just seem to feel threatened when other folks get off their backsides and do something. Also, it's not that they don't understand what's being said. One can explain something hundreds of different ways, but if they don't WANT to understand (because it doesn't suit their agenda,) they'll continue to play stupid. Failing that, they'll insist YOU are stupid.

Ignore and carry on doing what you know is right. Pisses them off even more! :)

Wow ok Kritiq lets talk about getting off the backside

I have noted that Object and its adherents are more than happy to get men and women into unemployment. These people who have got off their backsides and got jobs but it doesn't matter that they may not be able to pay mortgages or other debts because it make you feel better. So what are these people suppose to do? With the current unemployment rates getting work is not easy as it is. So if your are employed by a club that is closing, the answer from Object is simple, get another job, maybe one in a shop or maybe a fast food outlet or a supermarket because at least you won't be exploited by the patriachy?

So lets see

Did you know that more than one million women are now jobless in Britain, an increase on 91,000 from last year?

Did you know that the North West was the worst hit region in last quarter with 26,000 more women losing their jobs?

Did you know that the number of female jobseekers has leapt to its highest rate in 23 years?

Please also consider that young workers have also been hit hard by unemployment, with over million aged 16-24 now jobless and nearly 250,000 unemployed for more than a year.

BUT none if this matters so long as Object and their little warriors run around moralising and not thinking of the impact of what they are doing.

right. but the welfare system is there to support those in need. and those 'in need' count as those who have been freed from exploitative work.

forcing women to jiggle their breasts in punter's faces because there is no other career option doesn't make it right, Tony, just because they can then feed the cat. unemployment is a completely different issue to strip clubs.

the impact of closing down strip clubs is that slowly, slowly, it might might be possible for women to be treated as equals, instead of consumer objects to be bought and discarded at will.

and who knows, then maybe the employment figures will refelct some equlity as well, with some blokes doing those cleaning jobs or taking part time work and staying home with the kids, whilst the women get equal opportunity to work outside the home in higher earning careers.

i can't believe you are actually attempting to argue unemployment as a reason to keep women where you want them (in your lap, pretending to be turned on whilst you retain the money power)

meh, actually, i can.

LMAO mad no one sits in anyones lap.... you have read the regulations?

Back to the point, these people in employment join the unemployed to make you feel better. pointing the finger and assign blame... the it is not me I am doing this for every women and ok your child might not be able to have things but that is your child, your home may be repossessed while your sorting your claims out but that is not my problem because I am doing for every women even those that dont want me to.

Anyway as amusing as it is saying that the welfare system would look after these people (have lost my job and my home years ago I can tell you it doesn't work like you think) seeing you think it is ok to hurt other women to suit your goals has given me more to think about.

So you enjoy watching women who have limited employment choices due to the wider economic situation take their clothes off and dance for you Tony? You think it's OK to watch a women who is in danger of having her home repossessed if she doesn't do what you want? At least now you're more honest than when you were claiming they all loved it.

metaphorically speaking. it's where you are imagining them, i'm sure.

fwiw, i'd rather my children weren't raised to think that it is aceptable for a woman to have to strip to feed her family. i think that shows children that women are there to be the playthings of men, and are only valued whilst they are youngish, prettyish, and willing to get their kit off. what on earth mssage is that sending to my son and daughters?

if that means they see me weeping whilst i try to find work, so be it.

oh, and bollocks to your woe is me story. if you spent less time fussing over preserving your right to watch semi clad women gyrate, i'm sure there's some internet work you could be doing. all that research.

i don't have a job. i'm a carer. another one of those things that women end up doing because it's too much of a balls ache for men. i also don't have a job because in this market i'm overqualified, and despite applying for minimum wage jobs, no-one wants me.

So Tony, if the women who are doing it have no other employment or benefits options, then you're basically saying they're doing it because they're forced to, but you're still quite happy to take advantage of that. Nice.

Wow all of you who know so much yes it is all my fault.

Ok now that I have finished laughing (just sniggering now). And I am doing plenty of research.

Right these women chose to work, they like most women in the UK have freedom of choice. Once they decided what form of employment they wanted they went about their business till a small hanful of women deiced they know better (and that really is the key to the designer feminist). Go to a venue and talk to the dancers and ask them if they want your help. You want to make people unemployed because it makes you feel better? Because of your morals?

Doesn't matter now anyone who is borderline on the issue will be seeing both sides of the story and perhaps thinking, wait a minute why don't I talk to both sides before I start making decisions. The hard liners were never going to change their minds, it is the lurkers that I want to get thinking, that I want to stop from just jumping on the bandwagon.

And yes this threads have made good tools to see how the hard liners are going to play it.

Finally Mad my woe story? Not even close, I could tell people things about me that make losing a job or house seem simple blessings. But this is where I disappear for a bit. Of course I will keep my eye on the boards occassionally, mainly for the laugh.

Sigh.

Tony, it isn't about personal moral outrage.

It is about gender equality politics.

HTH.

And that is it in a nutshell Beachcomber. Nowt to do with morality. Everything to do with harm reduction. Simples.

you aren't talking about freedom of choice, tony. you are talking about women who have no other option.

i'm not particularly interested in your back story tbh, you drip feed it where it suits - and i do think it would be crass to use any hardships you have endured to excuse your principles. in exactly the same way you are not interested in the back story of any of us. your particular back story complicates the issue somewhat because of a whole host of other stereotypes that have feck all to with gender but lots to do with equality. can't you put all this energy into campaigning against the cuts, instead of your god given right to pay to control a woman?

for all you know i might have spent twenty years working in clubs before i got married (you might even have been to one of my weddings). or i might be a bloke. i might even have worked with you in the past. (i worked with lots of men who visited strip clubs, shows, and some prostitutes. absolutely an accepted part of the lifestyle by the men. i knew their wives and children. all nice enough blokes. if utterly dishonest. i found it really interesting to have such a privileged view on what men find acceptable in comparison to women. i've also worked with a couple of ex-'dancers', one who genuinely did do it to pay her way through cambridge lol. on the surface she's fine, but periodically the mask slips.)

but your sheer sense of 'daddy knows what's best for the little women' is enough to make everyone want to ban strip clubs, not just the 'designer feminists' wtf. it's ironic that you somehow think your crusade is having the opposite effect, but do carry on with it.