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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Pro-life / Pro-choice

335 replies

Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 13:37

Admittedly usually something argued accross the atlantic than in the UK anymore... I am curious to know how it ranges in the forum.

Anyone here pro-life or pro-choice? Any specific reason?

OP posts:
superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:54

still not sure what you mean!! sorry Blush

thunderboltsandlightning · 18/12/2011 19:54

Superdiva I hope you advise men not to have penetrative sex unless it's for procreative purposes, as you're so against abortion.

I think that's an important message for your campaign to get out.

recall · 18/12/2011 19:56

I have MC at 22, 7 and 9 weeks, and I am a scrub nurse, so have seen terminations. They all appear very different. They don't look like a clump of cells, no more than I look like a clump of cells. They look like small foetus. I have never had a heavy period that looked like a small foetus.

blackcurrants · 18/12/2011 19:56

Super You 'bet' ? you bet ? you're willing to bet on another woman's life and another child's life?
Thank goodness you can't take how YOU feel and say: this is how everyone must feel! Have you no empathy?

I may think "oh, we'll find the room and resources for another baby, even if unplanned" but to make another woman go through a pregnancy she doesn't want, to give birth to a child she doesn't want, is a hideous violation of her bodily integrity, and shows an appalling arrogance, and lack of regard for her human worth. The majority of women who have abortions are already mothers, who are making a choice about the size and happiness and, let's face it, financial strength of their families. Who are you to take that choice away from them?

PeppaPigandGeorge · 18/12/2011 19:56

I'm sure milly and superduper are saying the same thing?!

That you can't abort a foetus after 24 weeks, but could posssibly induce birth and not kill, if the only reason for the abortion was the risk to the life of the mother?

I don't agree with this, by the way, I'm just trying to work out the argument!

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:56

why would i advise them that. i would advise that if you take the risk you must face the consequences. not palm them off onto a defenceless child.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:58

blackcurrent one word. adoption.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 20:00

i didnt take the choice away. they did.

recall · 18/12/2011 20:00

Superduperdiva Yes, I strongly agree.

MillyR · 18/12/2011 20:00

Peppapig, yes, that is what I'm saying. I'm not arguing for it I'm just trying to work out if that is what is being argued.

I don't know how I feel about the idea because it is going into a difficult area of medical ethics - that of the distress caused by intrusive medical treatments on babies born very early, and the conflict that can arise between people who want offspring to live, and doctors who don't want to cause distress and suffering just because medical technology has advanced.

recall · 18/12/2011 20:01

Again, I agree, they took the choice away.

learningtofly · 18/12/2011 20:01

Well I didn't take a risk, used contraception and still ended up pregnant

thunderboltsandlightning · 18/12/2011 20:02

You seem to see pregnancy as a punishment for sex SDD.

Once again, do you advise men you know who are in relationships, not to have penetrative sex except for reproduction. Most abortions are to women who have had children and don't want any more.

DontCallMeFrothyDragon · 18/12/2011 20:02

Child? FFS...

Talk about emotive language...

Up until 13 weeks, it is an embryo. It is incapable of living independently of the mother. From 13 weeks until birth, it is a fetus. Until 24 weeks, it is incapable of living independently of the mother. Which is why, in most cases, the cut off point for terminations is 24 weeks. It is not a child. It is a fetus. It does not take up a seat on the train, or require a place setting at dinner. It is a fetus.

recall · 18/12/2011 20:03

MillyR I was in the position of having a live born child at 22 weeks, I followed medical advice and allowed her to die without intervention.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 20:03

Ah I understand now milly! Wasnt what i meant but an interesting idea.

instead of aborting the baby, remove the baby at 24 weeks (provided medical treatment was advanced enough. Earlier if possible i guess). end of problem for mother. life of baby saved. you never know in 100 years this might be what happens!

DontCallMeFrothyDragon · 18/12/2011 20:04

Why punish an innocent child with adoption?

Do you have any idea what it is like to spend your teenage years, tormented by the fact your own mother didn't want you?

I spent most of my teenage years believing a few lives would have been made easier had my biological mother had me aborted. I'd have had less issues, for one...

recall · 18/12/2011 20:05

Dontcallmefrothydragon my baby of 22 weeks did live independently of me.

MillyR · 18/12/2011 20:05

Sorry Recall, it must have been a very difficult experience for you to go through.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 20:05

dontcall Well it required both those things when I was pregnant!!!! Wink (am I allowed to make a joke??!)

learning you did take the risk because contraception is (apparently) not 100% and everybody knows that.

PeppaPigandGeorge · 18/12/2011 20:06

It really isn't about taking risks or not or how and with whom you had sex. The life of the unborn foetus is either capable of outweighing the autonomy of the mother or it isn't. I believe it isn't and abortion should be available on demand up until birth.

Equally, I think it is logically consistent with feminism to say that abortion is wrong in all circumstances. Provided you don't start making exceptions; life is either sacred or it isn't.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 20:06

I am adopted too. dif circumstances though admittedly. I will be adopting too.

DontCallMeFrothyDragon · 18/12/2011 20:07

Sorry to hear of your experience, Recall. :( xposted.

recall · 18/12/2011 20:08

MillyR Thank you Wink

recall · 18/12/2011 20:09

*Dontcallmefrothydragon Thanks Wink