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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Pro-life / Pro-choice

335 replies

Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 13:37

Admittedly usually something argued accross the atlantic than in the UK anymore... I am curious to know how it ranges in the forum.

Anyone here pro-life or pro-choice? Any specific reason?

OP posts:
sportsfanatic · 18/12/2011 19:13

You are right i do believe women should have sovereignity over their bodies. unborn babies' bodies are their own bodies and they should have sovereigntiy over them.

But apparently they cease to have sovereignty in your book if they are a)going to die before or during birth or b) their mother is at risk?

Be consistent superdiva - do they or do they not have sovereignty?

DontCallMeFrothyDragon · 18/12/2011 19:15

Abortion is only legal after 24 weeks under exceptional circumstances.

Stop being so flippant.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:15

There's a balance that tips different ways. Default position should be to the baby. IMO.

There's no brilliant solution to this sports. It's all about balancing rights.

flippinada · 18/12/2011 19:16

Yes FrothyDragon how dare you attempt to discuss this issue when you have KNOW IDEA?

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:18

(b)that the termination is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; or .
(c)that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk to the life of the pregnant woman, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated; or .
(d)that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.

Not really that exceptional. In fact 3 out of the 4 subsections in the act allow abortion up until birth.

sportsfanatic · 18/12/2011 19:20

There's no brilliant solution to this sports. It's all about balancing rights.

Hmm. You seem to be at loss how to answer my two posts superdiva. Could it be because you have realised your arguments were over simplistic and failed a simple logic test?

DontCallMeFrothyDragon · 18/12/2011 19:20

So, what...

It may only kill or incapacitate the woman, but that's no biggie... I mean, there's plenty more women where that one came from...

Misogyny is getting a bit boring these days...

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:22

Wow. you havent read my posts at all have you.

You were wrong on the law. I was right.

ive already said i believe there could be an exception where the risk of death of the mother was raised above normal risks of pregnancy.

Kind of invalidates your last sarcastic post non.

learningtofly · 18/12/2011 19:22

I have skimmed the thread.

I had an abortion earlier this year in slightly unusual circumstances (can't link from my phone but feel free to search for the thread)

For dh and I it was the toughest decision and Tbh it never occurred to me to think of it from a feminist pov. Ultimately, although it was a joint decision for dh and I alongside the medical advice and opinion, it was still my body and my signature on that consent form. I could have stopped the process at anytime, despite the stats and the professional opinion of others.

My experience has made me pro choice. Even knowing someone else's circumstances can not put you in their shoes and I can not and will not judge them for it.

blackcurrants · 18/12/2011 19:23

Well, if "murder" = "unlawful killing" then no, a soldier killing an enemy combatant in wartime isn't murder, because declaring war makes the subsequent killing legal. That's not a very palatable thing to think about, perhaps, but that's kind of the point of declaring war.

So, since abortion is legal, it is lawful killing if it is killing at all, which I would debate. It's certainly not killing a person. And here's the thing, if it is lawful killing, how can it be murder?

Finally, you say there's a balance that tips different ways, and the default should be that the balance tips towards the foetus (which, incidentally, isn't a baby.

BUT: Why should the balance tip towards the foetus and not the woman, Super?

flippinada · 18/12/2011 19:26

What I like to remember when reading threads like this is that pro-lifers are highly unlikely to get their own way. Still, for those who find our laws on this far too lax (who do these incubators women think they are, wanting to have control over their own bodies? How selfish), there is always the opportunity to move somewhere less liberal.

sportsfanatic · 18/12/2011 19:28

ive already said i believe there could be an exception where the risk of death of the mother was raised above normal risks of pregnancy.

But you have said abortion is murder superduperdiva. So are the exceptions murder or not murder?

I can't get a handle on your inconsistency here...Confused

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:30

because black the woman made the choice to have sex/not use contraception/took the risk. The baby is defenceless.

Create life, then kill it?! Words just can't express how AWFUL that is.

sportsfanatic · 18/12/2011 19:31

superdupadiva: I think you gave a gut reaction in your initial postings and have backed yourself into a corner. It's fortunate that we don't generally make our laws on gut reactions but after careful debate and thought.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:31

sports im not going to repate myself again. Read back.

sportsfanatic · 18/12/2011 19:32

Sorry - superduperdiva misspelled your name Blush

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:33

no backing into corner. i have maintained my position totally.

-murder (not in legal sense but in moral sense)
-a couple of very particular exceptions should be allowed

cant see how ive changed from that?

StewieGriffinsMom · 18/12/2011 19:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sportsfanatic · 18/12/2011 19:33

Oh, I did super I did - your first two posts were very very clear.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:34

Dont worry I knew it was for me!!!! Grin

sportsfanatic · 18/12/2011 19:34

Unfortunately the rest were back tracking and did not answer my specific points but simply muttered something about balance....

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:35

I find all your posts (not you personally!) lacking in thought. TOTALLY lacking in any thought for the unborn child.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:36

the law on murder is the same.

default position to kill someone is murder
but there are exceptions e.g. war time.

its rather simple actually.

in fact it is the law we have at the moment Hmm

recall · 18/12/2011 19:36

Superduperdiva I agree, it is foeticide - inhuman in my opinion.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:37

i would just narrow the exceptions and lower the limit.

BUT my opinion would be it is still WRONG no matter what the exception.