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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Pro-life / Pro-choice

335 replies

Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 13:37

Admittedly usually something argued accross the atlantic than in the UK anymore... I am curious to know how it ranges in the forum.

Anyone here pro-life or pro-choice? Any specific reason?

OP posts:
superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:39

Would any of you be against having to watch a video of an abortion before you have one?

I cant see what is wrong with knowing what actually happens/what the baby actually looks like etc?

StewieGriffinsMom · 18/12/2011 19:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sportsfanatic · 18/12/2011 19:42

Where in your first post did you say murder in a moral sense and not a legal one? Murder is unlawful killing - it has a very specific legal meaning, not a moral one.

Once you start talking about making exceptions to what you declare is always murder you are trying to make a case for moral murder - bit tricky that.

recall · 18/12/2011 19:42

Stewie I disagree, most people do not know what it looks like.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:42

I dont agree stewie. i dont believe women do know. particularly young women/teenagers.

i have first hand experience of that actually.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:43

anyway so you wouldnt be against it?

recall · 18/12/2011 19:43

Stewie when would most people see a terminated foetus ??

recall · 18/12/2011 19:44

I too have first hand experience of it.

sportsfanatic · 18/12/2011 19:44

Oh lord, my roast joint is burning. Gotta fly. Carry on ladies....Grin

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:44

Perhaps the problem is i am separating my belief from what i would do in practise (if i wrote the law).

i BELIEVE it is murder.
I would allow exceptions.

In an ideal world there would be no unwanted pregnancies.

surely surely we can agree on that!!

PeppaPigandGeorge · 18/12/2011 19:46

I think that if abortion is lawful at all, then it has to be lawful in all circumstances and on demand. To require there to be a "reason" brings a moral judgement into the equation. It is either OK or not OK to abort a foetus.

Personally, I am pro-choice, but I do think it is consistent with feminism to be pro-life, provided you are pro-life in all circumstances, with possibly the exception of real and imminent risk to the life of the mother (i.e. mortality, not just a mental health risk etc).

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:46

I have a couple of friends (very educated, high fliers etc, young, pro-choice) who i showed my 12 wk scan to.

"it has fingers??!! at twelve weeks " ???!!!!!

Hmm

and you are pro-choice?!!! riiiiiiight.

blackcurrants · 18/12/2011 19:46

I know what a miscarriage looks like at eight weeks, so I imagine an abortion at that time would look the same. It looks like a very heavy period.

The majority of abortions happen in the first trimester. What's your point?

The problem I think we have is that you think if those of us who are for safe, legal access to safe, legal abortion just knew more about abortion, we would change our positions. But - we do know! We think women have a right to decide whether or not to be pregnant and give birth. We think women's lives matter. And we (in general) don't confuse a foetus with a baby.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:47

agree peppa totally agree.

if you are pro-choice you must agree with aborting up until birth. what is the difference to you?

blackcurrants · 18/12/2011 19:48

And yes, in an ideal world there would be no unwanted pregnancies -we can definitely agree on that!

I just want to add: in an ideal world there would be no unwanted children. People who are anti-choice want to turn an unwanted pregnancy into an unwanted child.

The poor child!

StewieGriffinsMom · 18/12/2011 19:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:49

and if the response is it can survive independently then you cant agree with aborting due to risk to the mothers life AFTER 24 weeks.

recall · 18/12/2011 19:49

Blackurants a terminated foetus looks different to an 8 week MC, I have seen both. It is different to a very heavy period.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:50

unwanted child my arse. i bet 99% of those children wouldnt be unwanted the moment their mothers laid eyes on them.

MillyR · 18/12/2011 19:50

Do you mean that birth should be induced at 24 weeks and then treated as a baby in a special care baby unit?

blackcurrants · 18/12/2011 19:51

recall: but as I said, most abortions in this country happen in the first trimester, because most women who are pregnant and don't want to be pregnant, want to stop being pregnant as quickly as possible.

Therefore an abortion at 8 weeks would look just like a miscarriage at 8 weeks, right? I mean, it's the same clump of cells coming out.

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:51

sorry no idea what you mean milly

PeppaPigandGeorge · 18/12/2011 19:52

I think whether a foetus can survive independently of the mother is a very dangerous basis for any abortion law. What happens when in, say, 15 years time, a foetus of 8 weeks can be saved by surviving in some sort of womb-like tank? Should the mother be prevented from having an abortion because the remaining gestation can be in some sort of incubator?

superduperdiva · 18/12/2011 19:52

clump of cells

oh dear

oh dear

oh dear

MillyR · 18/12/2011 19:53

I'm referring to the point about saving women's lives when the baby is over 24 weeks. I may be missing the point.