Pro-life / Pro-choice

[Drowz0r]

Admittedly usually something argued accross the atlantic than in the UK anymore... I am curious to know how it ranges in the forum.

Anyone here pro-life or pro-choice? Any specific reason?

So you can't answer my question, then? How raised? At what point does the woman's life matter?

OK we know you won't change your mind on this because you're a woman hater.

Women shouldn't have sex unless they're prepared to risk death for it.

And women who are raped (1 in 9 of us) who get pregant, can fuck off too.

And don't FGS demand child support for those babies, men mustn't be bothered with that.

I think we know where you're coming from.

Ive already answered. above the normal risk of pregnancy. which is actually quite low come to think of it. so in fact that does give rather a lot of leeway does it not.

Men don't have to forgo the same "choices" when they have sex, though, Superdiva. Men don't have the risk of falling pregnant. If a woman falls pregnant, she has to make a choice regarding her body. The man has to make a choice as to whether he stands by her or not. Hardly the same choice. Last time I checked, a woman can't walk out on a pregnancy.

As for abortion = murder? Surely life begins when the baby enters the world? They have restrictions on when a termination can be carried out, for those who wish to argue that it's sooner.

The simple answer is this. If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. But don't dictate to other women what they can and can't do to their bodies.

You never know when you may become pregnant, and realise that carrying on with the pregnancy is not in your best interests.

Bet it still cuts abortion rates by 99% though!!

There are NOT restrictions on when a termination can be carried out. It can be carried out up until birth.

I dont dictate what others can do hence why I prefaced my opinions with "I believe".

So you're saying that abortion is murder apart from when the women's life is at risk? Or it's still murder then, but it should be allowable murder?

It's a pity it isn't the man who gets pregnant! Then we could be Anti-abortion and Anti-men at the same time!

Nope still murder but the balance tips. Just like "murder" in wartime.

against abortion = woman hater
for abortion = baby hater

Ergo the argument will never be settled.

I think the fact that you are prepared to say that women should undergo even a small risk of death against their will, shows how much you value women's lives.

It's not just the risk of death either. It's the risk of tears, cuts, knackered pelvic floor, fissures, PND, PTSD , sexual function etc etc. To say nothing of the psychological risks and the effect it has on long term earning power.

Is there any circumstance that you would be prepared to force men to undergo such risks against their will? I bet not. Becasue men's lives matter.

Pro-choice does not equal baby hater, don't be so ridiculous!

I believe abortion should only be allowed if the child is 100% going to die upon birth/before birth. Or if the mother is at a raised risk of death. ONLY.

I don't understand that. If you hold that abortion is murder and murder is wrong, how can you justify it in those two circumstances? Because it will still be murder and the child will still be dead.

All you are saying is that murder is OK in certain circumstances that you subjectively happen to define, but not in others.

(Not to mention that it is statistically unlikely that you can be 100% certain that a children is going to die upon birth/before birth. So you could have murdered a child unnecessarily. And how far should as mother's risk be raised before you decide murder is OK in those circumstances - 1%, 10%, 50%....?). Where do you set the risk/benefit ratio? You are in fact still saying the same as those pro-choicers you oppose i.e. the mother's life trumps the child's. The only difference is that you are using your own criteria instead of that of the pregnant woman.

You say it's barbaric. But apparently it's OK to be barbaric if the two circumstances in which you would subjectively agree abortion should be allowed are met?

If you are pro-life and believe abortion is murder you should be pro-life, full stop, because murder is murder. Or are some murders less wrong than others, but only if they meet your own specific criteria?

I am pro-choice because I do not believe my criteria or views should be imposed on another who may have different criteria.

You bet not?!! Errr of course I would! Why on earth do you keep mentioning men. Youre obsessed!

Dont call me I do know different. You are wrong. go read the abortion act.

you really shouldnt be participating in a debate when you dont know the basic facts.

I'm obsessed with the fact that most people in our soceity value men's lives above those of women, yes. I think that's so horrific that it's jusitfiable to be siighttly obsessive about it.

It's so facile to say that believing women should have sovreignty over their bodies, means you hate babies. That can only come form someone who cannot think in nuances.

You are right i do believe women should have sovereignity over their bodies. unborn babies' bodies are their own bodies and they should have sovereigntiy over them.

From the Abortion Act 1967

"(1)Subject to the provisions of this section, a person shall not be guilty of an offence under the law relating to abortion when a pregnancy is terminated by a registered medical practitioner if two registered medical practitioners are of the opinion, formed in good faith?

[F1(a)that the pregnancy has not exceeded its twenty-fourth week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family; or "

As you were saying...

Yeah the or at the end is kinda fundamental.

Seriously do i have to spell it out for you???

Right, as you insist on being inflammatory, I'm refusing to engage with you further.

Just because I read the text differently to you does not mean that you have the right to be so rude towards me.

Well. I'm pro-choice and more so after having a child, precisely because it makes me realise just how precious and important a child's life is. It's something I feel very strongly about.

I've also never got the abortion is murder unless I say it isn't for x,y,z reason. It either is or it isn't.

You read the text differently?! you are engaging in this debate when you have KNOW IDEA what the law is!

ABORTION IS LEGAL IN THIS COUNTY UP UNTIL BIRTH.

we kill others in war. is that murder? should our war heros be put on trial? life isnt black and white (as you all say, often.)

superduperdiva, that very question is something I struggle with.