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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

What is this?

59 replies

trailing · 23/09/2011 09:33

I've name changed for this.

I live in an Asian country where prostitution and "massage" parlous that offer a "happy ending" (vile phrase) are incredibly common. The street I used to live on had two or three massage parlous or "hairdressing" salons (whore houses) and I was in a smart part of town. The prostitutes are mostly picked up in bars. It is the same in most of the large cities near where I live to the point that I can't name a city in Asia where this isn't common.

On Tuesday I discovered that almost every man I know uses these massage places and have the "happy ending." By every man I do mean every man in my social circle. Not just friends but friends of friends and people I've met a few times down the pub. I'm sure there are some who don't but they are a minority.

If this wasn't sad enough I'm told that the men (and I use the word loosely because I don't have enough respect for any of these scumbags to call them men) have favourite girls and discuss them when the men get together. Yep, this isn't some dirty little secret, something that pervy men do but don't want anyone to know. No, this is out and proud... except...

I'm the only wife who knows. So they clearly know how fucking disgusting and revolting it is and that their wives would geld them if they knew about this.

These men have girlfriends, wives, fiancees, pregnant partners, babies at home, toddlers, children, teens and adult children.

Apart from the issues that my H and I are now going through I feel nothing but disgust and horror at what these men are doing not only to their families but also to the poor girls who work in these massage places. I'm sick and angry and hurt and just fucking beyond it. Yes, by every man I know I do mean every man I know including the one who promised to love me forsaking all others. Angry :(

Firstly how do I deal with all the other men? Should I just smile and pretend I don't know they use other women for their selfish pleasure?

Secondly why do they do this? Because they can? Because they're all tosspot wankers?

A friend of mine said a few years ago that she didn't know one single relationship in this place that didn't involve infidelity. She was right. :(

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HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 23/09/2011 09:44

Oh wow trailing. What a lot to deal with Sad. I am just replying quickly now as I didn't want your post to go unanswered but will come back later when I've thought some more about your questions. Just a quick question - how well do you know their wives/partners?

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trailing · 23/09/2011 09:49

Some of the women are my closest friends. Some are women I know well enough to call for a coffee but not well enough to tell them my dreams/fears to. Others are just women in my friendship circle who I'd say hi to at the pub but not do lunch with.

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trailing · 23/09/2011 09:50

I should also add that none of us work as most of us can't on our spouse visas and it's almost impossible to change to a non spouse visa once you're on one.

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StewieGriffinsMom · 23/09/2011 09:50

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flippinada · 23/09/2011 09:52

Bloody hell, how awful. No wonder you are upset and reeling from all this.

I know its not much help but I would probably feel much the same way as you. Actually you can scratch that probably - I would feel the same way, shocked, disgusted, saddened...lots of sympathy.

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SybilBeddows · 23/09/2011 09:57

I wonder if any of the other wives actually do know but are pretending it isn't happening because they're at a loss as to how to deal with it.

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trailing · 23/09/2011 10:00

I might not be able to post later as H will be home and I'm about 7 hours ahead of the UK.

H is going for STD test over the weekend.

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ChristinedePizan · 23/09/2011 10:06

oh trailing how awful for you, I can't imagine how furious and disgusted and shocked you must feel.

I suspect they do it because they can and because everyone else does it so it becomes socially acceptable. There are probably men who arrive from Europe and think that they won't participate, and then gradually they become desensitised and don't think of the girls as people any more. And I bet they need to get all their colleagues and friends involved so that there isn't a voice of dissent left. There must be a huge amount of peer pressure and there is probably a 'well they're prostitutes anyway and I'm kind and don't hurt and pay well and they need the money' bit of justification going on too.

None of that makes it remotely okay of course but I'm just trying to understand the reasons a man who might never dream of going to a prostitute here might justify it to themselves as being acceptable there.

Could you tell your close friends? I don't think I could know that my friend's husband was regularly seeing prostitutes and not tell - I'd feel complicit. What a hideous situation to be in

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steamedtreaclesponge · 23/09/2011 10:07

God, what a horrible position - and what a horrible thing to find out about. I think I would probably tell those of the wives that I'm closest to, and hope that they spread the information further. But it's a tricky thing to do - especially if they already know or are in denial, and it could make your position very uncomfortable if they decide to ostracise you for speaking out. How long are you living out there for? Are you planning to return at some point or is this your permanent home?

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trailing · 23/09/2011 10:08

Another aspect are the Karaoke bars. These are places where a lot of business is conducted here and women are paraded out for the men to choose who they will sing with or pour their drinks or play the "games" that are usually played in these places. All of the games are sexual and revolting in nature. H has had business associates offer to buy him girls in the past.

I suppose all the wives know what goes on but we either assume it's not our husbands or we are told that you can go for a massage without a wank at the end which is true. Just turns out this option isn't usually chosen.

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flippinada · 23/09/2011 10:10

What a thing to be dealing with trailing.

As for why they do it, who knows? I guess from what you describe it is 'normalised'. Not that it's ANY excuse whatsoever. Those poor girls and women :(

How has your H been behaving since you found out? Has he been apologetic, contrite, disgusted with himself...cos he bloody well should be!!

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StewieGriffinsMom · 23/09/2011 10:11

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trailing · 23/09/2011 10:12

H is on an open ended posting. Most of us are. We are going to look at jobs this weekend so that we can get out of here. I don't blame the country but I do agree with Christine that there probably is a hugely negative Overton Window (have I used that in the right context?) going on here. H admitted/agreed that this would never happen here or in the country he is from where prostitution is legal.

I know I owe nothing to H but he also doesn't want to be the shithead who blabbed. (Yes he told me, he wasn't caught out). Knowing the men who do this they would blame H for being caught not themselves for cheating.

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GetOrfMo1Land · 23/09/2011 10:14

My ex partner started a business in a far east country.

He got up to all sorts, and was astonished that I was so upset by it all, as he was completely normalised by what passes for 'normal' out there.

Thank christ he is my ex. It was absolutely horrible what went on.

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trailing · 23/09/2011 10:15

I'm going on Monday to get tested. H has been a sobbing wreck. He got horribly drunk on Monday night in another city and slept with someone. He called me in floods of tears Tuesday morning and admitted everything. He is very, very sorry.

He is still a tosspot wanker cunt though. My beautiful DD is less than a year. My H is a stupid idiotic shit.

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GetOrfMo1Land · 23/09/2011 10:15

'normalised for what passes for normal' Hmm

Fantastic use of the English language there.

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Prolesworth · 23/09/2011 10:17

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StewieGriffinsMom · 23/09/2011 10:17

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GetOrfMo1Land · 23/09/2011 10:18

Oh I am so sorry trailing Sad.

How bloody awful.

My personal take on it was that I just couldn't get through it. I just thought DP was a disgusting piece of meat and couldn't get past it. Mind you he had been carrying on like it for ages, it wasn't just a one off.

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trailing · 23/09/2011 10:31

I don't know what I'm going to do. I wouldn't have any access to benefits if I returned to the UK (I think. I've been out of the country for years and was a student when I was there). I also have no access to any help in H's home country. I'm going to H's home country next week to visit PIL and back to the UK at Christmas. I'll have a good think whilst I'm away and see what I want to do.

The annoying thing is that apart from this (which now colours everything I thought about our relationship) we have a wonderful marriage. He is kind, generous, loving, thoughtful, a great father and a good man(HA!). We have fun together, we have a good life together, we talk for hours, have the same tastes...

He is agreeing to anything and everything I want to make this work. I have no idea if I can get past this.

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trailing · 23/09/2011 10:31

Thank you very much for all of your support and thoughts. It really does mean a lot.

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GetOrfMo1Land · 23/09/2011 10:33

Your situation sounds scary trailing - it must be difficult being so far away.

Is there any way that your DH would relocate his job to get away from that kind of ingrained culture? I think it would be very difficult for this kind of behaviour to stop, tbh, if the whole social scene is geared around it.

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SybilBeddows · 23/09/2011 10:36

well, if he is truly sorry there is hope.

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WilsonFrickett · 23/09/2011 10:39

I just wanted to add my support for what is an awful situation. But I think though you have to tell the women closest to you as they're likely putting themselves at risk of STDs. Can you do it before you leave to go to PILs, and maybe then avoid some of the flak which will come your way?

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ElephantsAndMiasmas · 23/09/2011 10:41

I'm so sorry to hear that you're living in a nest of arseholes, trailing. You and all the other women and families involved deserve so much more. I do think it's important to speak out to the other wives, if possible. You can shift that Overton window right back to where it should be, or if not that, at least more towards the realms of half-decent behaviour.

Thinking of you :(

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