A feminist discriminating against women.....

[TheRealTillyMinto]

...oh yes... and the feminist is... me.

I run my own company in a male industry. we are small but growing and have really large, demanding clients. i am in my mid/late thirties. i want to have children. i will have to work as much as possible. thats ok as it is my choice to be an employer & women in my family have worked for generations so i grew up with a working mother, grandmothers, aunts etc.

but my company is not large enough to have me working as much as possible, and another woman on maternity leave. very few women apply for jobs in my industry, so this is only theortical, but for the time being i would not employ a women if i thought there was any chance of them needing mat leave at the same time as me.

it is a terrible thing to say but i dont have much time left so i am prioritising me & my life over the employment equality of other women.

generally speaking as an employer, i think ML is good for business as it creates change within an organisation.

your thoughts please.

[AlysWorld]

Minipie - reasons for discriminating against women are also generalisations. The two sets of generalisations counter one another, hence my reference to them.

[TheRealTillyMinto]

BIWI - you are not wrong! i have started to delegate. 4 yrs ago i had an extremely painful illness so i threw myself into work to cope. then as that got better my dad became profoundly paralysed & died so i threw myself into work to cope.

during these times i did not delegate. so i have only started to delegate for the last year. but i am new to it & have made mistakes which have delayed my business development plans.

I am very good at making money but only learning to manage the team etc.

The problem I have is I am 38 & time is something I don?t have. From a commercial perspective it is obviously only my (& DPs) problem. i was interested if feminism has a different angle: the concept of one woman?s right to reproduce v another woman's right to equal treatment during the employment process.

I think it would be fair to say the MN feminists say that the problem i have is my (& DPs) responsibility & no one else?s, because in deciding to run my own business, i gave up the rights that have been put in place to assist employed woman.

i gave up being employed but i did not stop being a woman. i hope one day the system does more to encourage women entrepreneurs.

[suzikettles]

I still think you've got a rather rosy idea of other women's employment rights Tilly.

• There are plenty high-flying employed women who feel they have to get back to work as soon after birth as possible. They are often pressurised by their employers to feel that they are letting down the business if they don't do this.
  

• There are plenty women who find themselves out of work when they tell their employers they are pregnant. It's illegal, but annecdotally pregnancy is a very high risk status for employed women. They are often too browbeaten by workplace bullying to fight it.
  

• There are plenty of women who return to work after maternity leave and find themselves permanently marginalised in the eyes of their employer, no matter what they do to make sure that motherhood doesn't impinge on their work.
  

At least you've got a job in your chosen field. Maybe if you weren't self-employed you wouldn't have a job at all - after all, you're in possession of a womb which makes you a "risk".

Most women find that their career takes a big hit when they have children. If your business takes a backwards step (hopefully temporary) then you won't have been the first (employee or employer) to find this. Luckily, it's in your power to take steps to mitigate this.

[AlysWorld]

Tilly, I really don't think that would be a fair way to summarise what has been said to you on this thread at all. FWIW I also think that had you come to the board talking about the problems faced by women business owners needing ML, I for one would have been interested in discussing it as it does seem that there is some unfairness going on. But my linking it to discriminating against another woman, I really don't know what you expected feminists to say to that. The stuff about women business owners as the focus came out very late.

[TrillianAstra]

Well done on your 6 point plan :)

[TheRealTillyMinto]

AW - maybe it is not what has been said, more what i have learnt from it. my post was me trying to start the conversation you refer to. i dont communicate correctly for MN. i have had this before where i think i have said one thing & everyone else reads something else. i am the common factor so it is me. i will ask my friends in RL in explain this to me.

i will leave it a while then go for the thread you suggest!

[forkful]

TheRealTillyMinto - coming to this late but perhaps with some different perspectives.

You've had the inevitable bashing about not wanting to employ women - I'd have piled in too if I'd have been on the thread earlier.

Here are some feminist perspectives:

• why don't people in general/society/business owners know exactly now statutory maternity pay and maternity allowance works (i.e. 109% reimbursement to employer) - big issue that it's not widely known about as it leads to discrimination about women - I blame a male dominated press and male dominated businesses
  

• access to subsidised quality affordable childcare is a big feminist issue, this would level the playing field for people getting back into work - if Government want women working they would provide this - there is really interesting stuff about how in the USA during second world war there were on site creches at factories etc and places which cooked communal meals/did mending all so women could work on the war effort - the war ended and so did the childcare
  

• support for the female entrepenur - we should certainly be interested as feminists IMO in their being special grants/tax breaks etc for women in your situation who have set up a business and want to take a break for children - there are tons of "special" tax breaks for other things - r&d, contaminated land etc - this could either make up for lack of income or give you £ to employ someone else
  

Specific to you:

• perhaps consider a life coach to discuss delegation etc
  

• try to get yourself some nicer clients - seriously there are many people who are reasonable about how they conduct their business and would be sympathetic to a bereavement etc
  

• I recommend you advertise on MN or gumtree for some part time (women?!) to assist you - you can get really really highly skilled women looking for part time roles at less than their real market rate. Consider this for all the bits you are not specific for - eg bookkeeping/marketing/admin/marketing.
  

• Look at an "exit strategy" for your business - with a corporate finance expert at an accountancy firm - this way you'd realise the fruits of your labour and could then start a new business or freelance in a small way in the future (obv no idea whether this would suit you or be feasible)
  

• Consider your DP becoming a SAHM
  

• Look into incorporating your business (see an accountant) this should minimise your tax and mean that if you have DC you can take advantage of childcare vouchers (means you pay an element of your childcare tax free)
  

• Realise than many women such as me went down to £110/week during maternity leave. If you go down to this amount you can then pay a replacement to do your work - I know it's not this simple - but that is the economic reality.

[forkful]

SAHD

[minipie]

That is true Alys. I guess the difference is that women's tendency to be more loyal is less obvious/less well known than their tendency to take ML.

[SardineQueen]

" I recommend you advertise on MN or gumtree for some part time (women?!) to assist you - you can get really really highly skilled women looking for part time roles at less than their real market rate. Consider this for all the bits you are not specific for - eg bookkeeping/marketing/admin/marketing."

If you are in london women like us are an agency who specialise in these types of hires.

There is also capability jane which is for higher level professional types.

If you hire someone who is looking for part-time work and already has their family then you are unlikely to encounter more mat leave, if you do they are more likely to come back into the same role as they are already part time, you are paying less out so there's less risk for you generally, they are very likely to be loyal, and they may well be cheap. In a sector like yours (male dominated etc) you are likely to be able to find one of the few women out there who do it and have had a family and are now struggling to get back in IYSWIM.

[SardineQueen]

Oh mine was for specific as well as non specific.

There are an awful lot of very experienced, highly skilled women out there who have fallen out of their industry due to children and are desperate to get back in.

[Blackduck]

See Milly I was serious about my suggestion!
Agree with so much of what has been suggested here - looking for more 'resonable' clients etc. And if you want someone to run a team I can do that! (blackduck polishes CV)

[SardineQueen]

There are also various organisations that support women in business and women entrepreneurs and that sort of thing I think?

Those might be interesting for you as well. If you are thinking of starting a family then as a small business owner there are obviously real challenges there, and they might have advice etc.

[SardineQueen]

Also what forkful said. If you are great at making money, and you love working, then think about other types of set-up. Not all women even want a year off! Although you won't know how you feel until it happens IYSWIM.

[AnnieLobeseder]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see how your own maternity leave and that of your theoretical employee are connected.

If your employee gets pregnant, you will be paid for her ML, and will be able to hire a replacement.

If you get pregnant, you may well get paid less MA, I don't know much about being self-emploted. But that's the case irrespective of your other employees.

So what if theoretical female employee is pregnant at the same time as you? She won't be 'stealing' your MA. It doesn't put you in any worse a position, as I see it.

Oh, and you are being short-sighted and discriminatory, which, as you appear to realise, is wrong wrong wrong.

[TheRealTillyMinto]

i have never properly worked with a woman, on the same team/doing the same type of job.

properly means the only occasion i have worked with a woman (including student holiday jobs) was my manager when I was taking my employer to court for sexual discrimination & she was friends with the person I complained about. She used to call him from her desk. Next to mine. So it was not a normal working relationship. (& no one else in the firm spoke to me for 3 months.)

I am 38. I have worked continuously since leaving university aged 22.

[SardineQueen]

Some are fine and some are not. Same as the men

I have worked in v male environments and v female environments and they have been fine.

[Faseeshus]

Can't be arsed to read the whole thread. I think this OP illustrates perfectly that women can be misogynists. So much for sisterhood.