I am in a state of feminist rage

[EllieG]

...because of stupid reports about working mothers (because fathers clearly have NOTHING to do with it) and sexist DV t-shirts from Topman and then having a conversation with one of the secretaries from work which went like:

Her - 'I think that women who just keep popping out babies to get housing off the state should be given no help' (Me - does anyone actually really do that? I think the Daily Mail just makes it up personally) and then she said 'I think it's wrong when a parent (but she meant mother) doesn't stay at home for the child's first 2 years having a career is selfish'. We were discussing a working single Mum who wants to go on secondment to another city for a bit and take her little child with her (thereby disrupting him for a bit) because - heavens above! - she has said she needs to do this for her career which is quite important in terms of providing for her child's future needs as her feckless ex (who does not agree and is using court to block her move) doesn't give them anything and she is the one who will have to pay for everything and she wants to be able to, and, even worse - She Likes Her Job. Awful, awful woman.

So it's OK to be a single mother if you -

a - just have one
b - provide for it yourself and have no state help (if you have state help are a feckless sponger who should Go Out And Get A Job)
c - don't try and have a proper career though, that is very bad. Especially if you might be quite good at it and enjoy it and might be trying to earn lots of money because then you are hard-nosed career woman who should have child taken away because you are going against you inner motherly nature.

Well she only works now her kids are all grown, obviously.

My two girls are absolutely buggered and will turn out to be anti-social yobs because not only do I work, but....[whispers]...I like my job....and DD2 is in childcare. If only DH earned enough so I could stay at home and diet so I could be thinner and more beautiful for him. Not only do I neglect my children, I also neglect poor DH because he has to do the housework as well because of my selfishly going to work. At the moment though if I stayed at home would have to claim benefits, so clearly that is Not Allowed either.

[Ellie hangs her head in shame at being a woman]

You're evil, Ellie, pure evil.

fancy enjoying your job Ellie, it's people like you who will be the ruin of this ONCE GREAT COUNTRY

I know. I'm probably to blame for them immigrants taking our jobs too.

apart from the one you are selfishly doing when you SHOULD BE AT HOME WITH THE KIDS BUT NOT CLAIMING BENEFITS....

Went to my (incredibly strong ahead-of-her-time feminist) grandmother's funeral on Wednesday. The fuckwit catholic priest banged on and on about what a blessing it was that she was able to be a SAHM, and how that was SO important.

Bloody hell AmandaCooper! What a fool.

And as for you EllieG... well, I blame YOUR mother. She must have done a really awful job to have spawned such a failure of a woman. And now you are passing those selfish genes down to your feral children. TUT TUT TUT.

Yes sorry to be utterly random about it on your thread Ellie. Your colleague sounds like any number of mine. This week alone I've heard how terrible and disgusting it is to work when you have a baby and then separately how you shouldn't employ women cause they have babies and then want to work part time and everyone else has to carry them.

My sister-in-law was going on to me at Christmas about how mothers should stay at home with their children for the first couple of years of life, even if the mother earnt more than the father (which is the case with some of my friends).

She & my brother have their own business and both work from home. She takes a day a week off to look after their son. My brother doesn't yet they are perfectly set up to take a day a week off each.

Her sexist attitudes really annoyed me. She was saying that a child needs its mother and I said, "doesn't a child need its parents?"

Why are women who go back to work villified so much?

I think it's worse at the moment because we have high unemployment. The tenet that A Man Needs A Job is so ingrained in - probably the majority of - people, there's a feeling that women should bugger off home and vacate the jobs. It wouldn't make any difference to the economy, but people tend not to think that hard :(

I like your image of a spaghetti ideology, SAF!

This business of getting more on benefits than wages is bonkers. (Sorry, this is a diversion isn't it?) I think the welfare system managed to get it right for about six months, 5 or 6 years ago - low wages were topped up, so you'd always be a little bit better off working than not.

Mind you, there are precious few jobs around here that pay more than a single person gets in benefits. It means wages are too low and rents are too high, I guess. You certainly don't live "well" on benefits, and a working person has higher costs in travel and clothes, etc.

In Mailworld, single parents are supposed to work and stay home with their DC! Perhaps you should all be childminders ... oh, but there'd be no call for childminders, would there, as all the married mums are home in the kitchen ...
... So the only approved solution is to marry a man with a job. I know, let's force all the men to get married! Doesn't matter if they're a rotten husband, as long as they pay the bills ...
... But the men would, quite rightly, complain about having to get married. I know, let's pay men a nice big subsidy to be married! That should cost, oh, about the same as keeping single mothers at home on benefits ...
... Which will lead to no economic change, but all the women will be out of the workplace. And more of them will need mental health care, due to being in forced marriages and bored witless. And 50% of the talent will be lost to the economy. But at least the women will be home.

I was about to say how glad I am the Faily Male doesn't run the country.
But I'm a bit worried that it does, now.

Is she jealous of women who have achieved more in their careers? I'm afraid I would be very condescending towards her (despite her obviously having a good job).

Actually, saf, I'm a working single mother - what time can I drop DD off?

I wonder whose bed those kids climb into when they wake up at night, Kerry. And who they go on holiday with, spend Christmas with, and who will fund their further education.

SAF's reply was nicer :)