I am in a state of feminist rage

[EllieG]

...because of stupid reports about working mothers (because fathers clearly have NOTHING to do with it) and sexist DV t-shirts from Topman and then having a conversation with one of the secretaries from work which went like:

Her - 'I think that women who just keep popping out babies to get housing off the state should be given no help' (Me - does anyone actually really do that? I think the Daily Mail just makes it up personally) and then she said 'I think it's wrong when a parent (but she meant mother) doesn't stay at home for the child's first 2 years having a career is selfish'. We were discussing a working single Mum who wants to go on secondment to another city for a bit and take her little child with her (thereby disrupting him for a bit) because - heavens above! - she has said she needs to do this for her career which is quite important in terms of providing for her child's future needs as her feckless ex (who does not agree and is using court to block her move) doesn't give them anything and she is the one who will have to pay for everything and she wants to be able to, and, even worse - She Likes Her Job. Awful, awful woman.

So it's OK to be a single mother if you -

a - just have one
b - provide for it yourself and have no state help (if you have state help are a feckless sponger who should Go Out And Get A Job)
c - don't try and have a proper career though, that is very bad. Especially if you might be quite good at it and enjoy it and might be trying to earn lots of money because then you are hard-nosed career woman who should have child taken away because you are going against you inner motherly nature.

I seriously do not think it is in children's best interests to have a SAHP who hates being a SAHP. I would much, much rather my mum had worked and my parents had taken joint responsibility for sorting out nice childcare.

No, you don't have to have a feminist viewpoint to post here - imo, though there's yet another long thread about that going on right now

I disagree that thre's one 'right' way for all. "Passed off to hired help" can mean given full-time, professional care by people who actually know what they're doing. It's ridiculous to suggest that biological parents are always best for the job.

I was a nanny - before you accuse me of bias, I'm telling you this because I do have experience of full-time childcare and I quit because I found it boring in the long term. If I'd had DC, I would have made a well-informed choice to get them brought up by a professional while I did my out-of-home job.

I don't understand how anyone can argue the best case scenario is an absent parent

You should have seen my parents

You are "bashing", Kerry, because you're prescribing ONE LIFESTYLE ONLY for EVERYONE who has children.

Btw, how's the sore nose?

Ouch! :(

You say I honestly try not to judge but you are doing! When you talk about what people "should" do with their personal lives, you're judging and saying you know better than them ...

As you say, we all make our own choices. So surely it's worth discussing how those choices can best be made, rather than telling everyone they should make the same choice as you?!

I witnessed my Mum's mental health suffer when she had to stay at home. We were all so much happier when she worked.

So I disagree with Kerry. Being prescriptive about other people's lives is not fair.

Also the scenario Kerry presents is pretty extreme isn't it? I know plenty of working couples and none of them don't see the kids at thebeginning it end of the day.

I don't see mine in the morning, but I really am not losing quality time with them (so dh gets to deal with all the lagging moaning and searching for lost books socks and homework )

To be fair Kerry, you would have to admit that more fathers than mothers fall into the category of never seeing their children due to career.

I had the same experience yama - my mother's mental health and self esteem really suffered from her being a SAHM. I wish I could go back in time and tell her not to give up her job. It is not ideal for one parent to be a SAH if neither parent is going to be happy and fulfilled doing it.

I also think it's a bit rude to anyone who works in childcare, to imply they're second best care.

Blimey it's all kicked off! Didn't mean this to be a working v SAHM thread - that argument makes me sad. I think there are many ways to parent and people are in different circumstances. Unless someone is wilfully neglectful or selfish or abusive to their children I do not judge their life/parenting choices because I do not know them, their kids, or their circumstances and have not walked in their shoes. And personally, I think if more women stood together on this kind of thing and rather than attacking each other over their choices (and I don't mean anyone specifically here, just in general) then there might be more focus on making society a bit fairer and less gender-biased and then women would be able to make real choices rather than being constrained by roles or guilt.

But anyway. I am going now because I don't choose to be around when people start going on about how shit I am and how damaged my children will be to have a working mother. They are lovely, and we love each other enormously. Both DDs are emotionally whole, socially adept and intelligent. I am not going to defend my choices here or have to apologise for working. Whether or not I have to do it economically is my business. I am not going to start telling SAHMs that they are crap because of any massive generalisations. Of course people who don't spend enough time with their children are stupid and not very good parents, but working does not make you one of those.

:) Ellie!