when you engage with the trolls

[MitchiestInge]

. . . is it a personal thing (actually engaging emotionally) or are you communicating with a wider, more silent audience or are there other motivations?

I can't work out why more people don't ignore them, but every now and then the exchanges are unintentionally funny or interesting - although mostly it gets very dull very quickly. Wondering what's in it for them too.

if there is trolling, it is mild in comparison to other places. want to see trolling? go to 4chans random board

That's true Dittany.

Also other trolls cross in various topics - there are people who always post inflammatory things but they do it in a variety of places and on a variety of topics.

we don't get them in the tack room either

unless I'm it

4chan are the people who linked porn to searches on youtube that children were likely to make, weren't they. To "make a point".

I don't think that I'll be visiting them any time soon!

"I agree with that we could do with a statement line at the top of the FS, so that it is clear that this is a pro-feminist arena, and while differences of opinion about feminism are welcomed, misogyny dressed up as 'an alternative POV' is not. It should make it much easier to report and ban offensive posters more quickly."

That sounds like a good idea although I'm not too sure how easy it would be for MNHQ to act on - we should ask them. I bet we will have a whole load of "censorship!! how dare you, these so called 'feminists' are trying to take over the world beginning with imposing a dogma on MN" type reactions. But hey ho we're pretty used to that.

I agree the feminist section attracts more than its fair share of trolls.

I also agree that emotional responses are normal, and that nice folk think about what they post, because they understand that there are real live human beings behind our names. We discuss some pretty sensitive (and often triggering) topics. Of course we have emotional responses. Emotional does not mean unreasonable hysterical feminist who can be dismissed cos she is a woman with feelings who gets angry/upset about stuff.

I think emotional responses are totally to be expected. However just as there's no excuse for hitting someone and saying 'I did it because they made me angry', there isn't an excuse to be really nasty and personal to posters who you might classify as a troll, just because you got angry.

I felt really uncomfortable seeing Wamster hounded off the board on a thread where her opinion was almost totally disagreed with - she was told to not let the door hit her arse on the way out and lots of other quite nasty posts.

No-one can be expected not to get emotional or angry about issues, but there's still no excuse for nasty posts - I have to disagree strongly with SGB on that. Her posts on some threads have been so aggressive and aimed at groups of posters who she sees as trolling - that can't be excused as 'misogyny makes me angry' IMO.

edd-what about the conkerz?

You know stripey I think we would get a lot less of that if we weren't having to put up with feckin trolls all this time taking the piss out of rape victims and calling us insane.

I know the thread you mean and I think a lot of us thought that Wamster was being quite difficult herself on it (to the point of being quite derailing).

I don't want to be mean about her though because she just apologised to me for insinuating that I am man hater.

stripey having an emotional response is a completely different thing to posting stuff that you shouldn't.

Emotional responses can't be helped. What people write they are able to control.

SGB did some fantastic straight talking recently - something about pooing one's pants when being disagreed with. It was feminist quote of the week material (and wasn't a personal go at anybody).

Twas absolute straight talking feminist gold.

Sardine Queen wrote;

"This is an emotional topic though. If someone posts something like eg women who get raped are asking for it, that elicits an emotional response in me. I don't see how that is "wrong" or as bad as trolling? Genuinely confused by that comment."

That is not what I said. What I did say was reacting emotively to a post is just as bad at derailing threads as trolling.

Of course people will have emotional responses and be angry but that can be got across more effectively by asserting a point of view without personal attacks.

Ah, that's a bit clearer now. I truly didn't understand your point.

So Dittany, Proles, Beach - you're happy with the idea that people posting dissenting views can have bile flung at them? Because I've been on the receiving end of one of SGB's rants and it hurt - it had the desired effect of making me leave the thread and lurk instead. And I'm not a troll, no matter how strongly I might disagree with some posters on some threads.

I've only read the OP and first page (because I've spent too long engaging with trolls, probably).

I engage because I think it's often very hard to be certain who's a troll and who's not.

There are probably relatively few people who troll and are fully aware they're doing it. Others probably know they are putting on a bit of a persona ... or derailing topics persistently ... or winding people up on purpose ... but they feel it's for the right reasons, or some kind of 'public service'. On this forum, a lot of trolls believe or want to believe they're actually helping a silent majority by speaking out and derailing or pushing their point again and again. At this point, I don't know if it's fair to call them trolls or not, and I will tend to keep engaging (even if against my better judgment I get irritated), because they might, and lurkers might, eventually decide it'd be more fun to debate and discuss than derail.

The other reason is because, if someone puts forward a very bad argument and it goes unchallenged, it stands as misinformation, and there is too much of that already. I think it's especially important not to let misinformation about women stand, because often it is about women who've already been shouted down in real life, or who never got the chance to speak up for themselves while they were alive. Cf. 'women in the past who had it easy staying home and raising their babies'.

Btw, this always comes up in discussions of trolling or MN feminists, so I want to say it as a public service announcement:

The posters on here are not jointly and severally liable for all posts. Not even if they're regulars, not even if they seem to be good mates in RL, or to agree with each other a lot. If you don't like someone's posts - report them. Tell them you're hurt/angry/confused if you like. Don't blame the entire section.

The pattern seems to go like this

MN Feminist - I have an opinion on this issue here
Edd/Wamster/Bob - I have a different opinion on said issue
MN feminist - RAWR i'm reporting your posts, ignoring you and getting everyone else here to gang up on you, you shouldn't be here, you are trolls and evil and you hate women and feminists and are trying to silence us

Rinse and repeat

I think I'm going to have some more lasagne, I'm starving.