British men choosing foreign wives for their "Stepfordesqeness"

[margerykemp]

For want of a better word but hopefully ykwim.

Based on my sample size of 4 (doubt if there is research on this) I have noticed British men marrying Mediterranean/Asian women and then experencing v different marriages than their friends with UK wives. The 4 in question are quite mysogynistic in general but the way they treat their wives, I cannot imagine as many ethnic British women putting up with. They are almost slaves, chained to the house, do 100% housework/childcare ( and none of these men work long hours/ have commutes). They have lots of hobbies, wives have none. Car is for their sole use. Etc etc.

So, I have started to think: have these men deliberatly sought out these 'submissive' wives? Is this just a blip in ppl i know or part of a wider trend?

Of course it has to do with buying sex and marriage. The reason the men are using the agency is because they are trying to buy sex and/or marriage. As a PP said, the article emphasises that the dates were platonic to heighten the scam or the poor deal for the men who weren't even getting sex from the women. The fact that one of the men whittled down his list of hundreds of women to two women then went to Ukraine expecting to be able to choose one of them is also very telling.

How is this anything other than men trying to buy sex and/or marriage and being disappointed that they actually have to be desirable or attractive to the women for something other than their cash?

Dating agencies don't promise successful partnering. Some may offer your membership fee back if you don't get a date, but the final choice comes down to the other members.
Anything other than this is coercion and may amount to forced marriage.

I suppose your comments highlight one of the problems: what are the roles and expectations of those involved....(material deleted for brevity)

WhentheRed I find the idea of wife shopping odious, and it is actually something people have looked at me sideways over and wondered about because of my wife’s nationality, not knowing she was a young teen when she came to the west with her parents.

But since when does delusion and unreasonable expectation excuse outright fraud or, worse, make it some form of righteous punishment? Its nice you have the personal smarts not to be scammed by Hot Jamaican web sites but even joining a regular dating site prepare to be hit on by plenty of men from God knows where telling you whatever they think will best part you from your money, quality of your body notwithstanding. Reputable dating sites do their best to suppress such individual fraud but even the poor ones who let it slide with little oversight are a huge step away from being complicit in its execution.

I think in that last sentence you mean 'consequences of their conduct towards men.'?

Part of my issue is I don't know what dating agencies promise.

I think at the very least you would expect such an agency not to employ people to pretend to like you without your knowledge? I think that is pretty obvious, without any need to invoke gender lensing.

You just reminded me of that horrible documentary Sardine. I think I saw the same one as I remember that awful line about 'headaches'. Barf. Truly sick-making. The Thai women in it did seem in control of things though and knew what they were doing. The men were just vile idiots.

I wouldn't have thought of Southern European women as subservient though margery. Greek and Spanish friends I have are as tough and independent as any Northern European friends I have. These are college-educated women though so maybe in poorer or less-educated groups in those countries the women are more willing to put up with macho crap from men in exchange for material security?

What is your objection to "gender lensing"? This is a feminist discussion board and we can discuss the feminist aspects of this including male entitlement to women's bodies for sex or marriage.

I think you misunderstood When's last sentence. It reads fine to me as she wrote it.

Oh how weird. This thread is from ages ago!

That's a very loose definition of 'dating agency', which highlights the lack of regulation in what has become a big, global industry.

Why are we only talking about scams on the "seller's" side? I'm sure there are "customers" who are not quite as solvent, single, or dedicated to getting a visa for a near-stranger as they make out. The only way the agency can deter these timewasters is to charge a hefty fee (thus redirecting them to another, even less regulated sphere of the dating 'industry'). But this is obviously not practical at the "seller's" end.

To put it bluntly, the men who join these agencies expect that their fee will allow them to exploit women's poverty without the risk of being exploited in return. I find that more cynical than the women's "emotional prostitution" decried in the article.

Of course desperate and gullible men will be among the exploited in the globalised, barely regulated dating marketplace. Perhaps such men (and their journalist friends) will one day notice that the unrestricted commercialisation of sex and intimacy is harmful to lots of other people, too.

""To put it bluntly, the men who join these agencies expect that their fee will allow them to exploit women's poverty without the risk of being exploited in return."

Exactly.

I find most wives quite stepfordy, no matter where they are from. I don't blame the wives. The majority of wives still do the majority of the housework, raising the kids etc, the only difference being that most Western women have jobs on top of all that. I don't think I know of one relationship where the work, housework and childcare is shared equally. I also see far too many women putting their useless men on a pedastal. And I think - WAKE UP.

I'm sure Asian women/Eastern European women look at Western women and think we must be stupid for trying to do it all, while we look at them and think they must be stupid for being so housewifey.

And meanwhile, men do whatever the hell they like and get away with it.

I've met a few catalogue purchasing men as my step FIL lives in Thailand.

They advertise the main advantage as submissive.

This section on Rosebrides is interesting. Especially the way they group all Russian women, and European women into one category...

Why Russian Women?
There are several reasons to choose RoseBrides.com over other sites if you are considering international dating. The majority of our female members are Russian – and here we talk about why Russian women are so desirable. Simply put, Russian women come from a culture of people who are generally laid back, friendly, open-minded, accepting and not quick to judge. Most Russians learned English in elementary school and can get up to speed very quickly when in a relationship. Russian women are pleasant to be around – and their highest priority is security and love.
Marriage on the Horizon
Russian women see their futures as wives and mothers, more so than many Western women. The idea of raising a family with a loving husband is important to many women the world over, but the importance of family for Russian women is what makes them special. Russian women value commitment and seek men who are willing and able to commit for the long term.
In Russian society women are expected to marry and have children. Career success is not a substitute for a family – marriage and children are the primary ways Russians define success for women.
Forget Tired Stereotypes
The Russian women on RoseBrides.com are not poverty stricken and seeking a man to rescue them. Russian women like to work and are ambitious, contrary to the myth that they are lazy and looking for someone to take care of them. They are well educated, well spoken, intelligent women who simply haven’t found what they’re looking for at home. They will look at what you have to offer in terms of a different perspective on life, among other things. Russian women typically know exactly what they’re looking for.
Although Russian women are very family-oriented, this doesn’t mean they prefer to stay home with the kids all their life. In fact, combining a job with children is perfectly normal for Russian women, though family interests are their highest priority.
Russian women have a lot to offer in return. They typically are not seeking a country to take refuge in, but a man who meets their high standards and excites their heart. If you are that man, dating a Russian woman can be exciting and fruitful for both of you.
Personality
Russian women enjoy shopping, chatting and other typical feminine pursuits. They are very generous by nature, spiritual and family oriented and do not like taking advantage of people.
In general Russian women are much more patient than Western women and can tolerate things others could never bear. They are partners, not competitors. They may also have low self-esteem and be insecure.
Russians have a high degree of general knowledge and read more than the average Westerner. Russia has a system of specialized professional training that may be superior to that in the West. Russians enjoy theatre, opera and other live performances; those who live in large cities can attend regularly because tickets are not very expensive.
Overlooking Your Differences
As noted earlier, Russian women come from a culture of people who are generally laid back, friendly, open-minded, accepting and not quick to judge. So it’s unlikely you’ll encounter a woman who is so enthralled by her own culture that it results in a culture clash. She will likely enjoy spending time with you at your favorite hotspots and at sports events – and appreciate the opportunity to learn about your country. Because a Russian woman on RoseBrides.com is expressly seeking a Western man, she will be more than willing to learn about you and your culture. Having studied English in school, she will quickly master it and adapt to a new country, even though it won’t be easy to leave her country.
The Truth of the Matter
Much of what you may have heard about Russian women are myths. Indeed, we’ve heard from many happy Western men about how wonderful Russian women are. Russian women make great wives because they make the extra effort and are good at adapting to new situations – including moving to a distant country and learning the ways of a new culture.
You’ll also be pleased to know that the success rate for international marriages is significantly higher than that for conventional marriages. This is due to the careful research and attention two people on the Internet put into the process compared to people who meet at home and marry impulsively. You can count on a Russian woman to put everything she has into your blossoming relationship.

Other than describing Russian women like they all are the same person, this was disturbing:

They may also have low self-esteem and be insecure.

They're advertising this as a positive thing

The only legitimate reason to want to date a Russian woman is her Russian-ness — a quality that is conspicuously absent among all that universalising waffle. If you're going to date an 'exotic' other, then why would you be interested in "overlooking your differences"? Surely that's the attraction.

Unless you were just after a pretty blonde fetish object who would owe it to you to do your housework and childcare, too.

The only legitimate reason to want to date a Russian woman is her Russian-ness

I would really disagree with this. I've never dated a Russian woman - or any woman, come to that - but I have dated a Russian man, in fact I even married one. If you read my above post you'll see that my DH is Russian.

So the fact that I was attracted to my DH's looks and personality are not ''legitimate''?

By the way, I presume that you are not so incredibly sexist as to distinguish between dating a Russian woman and a Russian man?

Believe me, dealing with differences in culture is definitely not an ''attraction'' although, admittedly, it does make for an interesting life. It has certainly opened my eyes to things that I had never considered before and I have certainly changed my DH's opinions on certain matters.
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this was disturbing:

They may also have low self-esteem and be insecure.

BriarRainbowshimmer I agree with you. From my time living in Russia I would say that this was no more or no less common than in this country. It is really sad that they are trying to highlight that.

That RoseBrides material... bliat.

nicky, I don't know how you met your husband. But why would anyone sign up to a dating site where "the majority of our [insert desired gender] members are Russian" unless they were attracted by their Russian-ness? If you go looking for a date on a site where the nationality/ethnicity of the other members is not specified, and are attracted to someone's looks and personality, then of course it is incidental if they are Russian. When you are visiting a Russian Brides site, it is not.

What struck me is the extraordinary lengths to which Rose Brides has gone to reassure their male western customers that they can have a cross-cultural relationship without leaving their comfort zone. The Russian lady will move to his country, adapt to his culture, speak his language, and take it upon herself to be patient and tolerant and "make the extra effort". It is implied that the man doesn't have to do any of this, beyond the bare minimum of not being a scumbag. Yet somehow he has earned the "extra effort" she makes. It's the language of entitlement.

The blurb is reinforcing the fantasy of Russian women as pliant and obedient while trying to fend off a negative stereotype that they are cold and difficult. Which is all crap. The only thing distinctive about Russian women is that they are Russian. If a man has no particular interest in Russia, why is he looking for a Russian bride?

I met my DH while I was working in Moscow.

I was responding to your comment about the only ''legitimate'' reason to date a Russian. However, I note that you have since elaborated on your point and I would certainly agree with you if you are talking solely about somebody signing up to an international dating site.

I agree with you that they are simply perpetuating an idealised myth. However, large numbers of naive American men - and it is mostly Americans - do fall for it and end up with very unrealistic expectations.

The problem comes when reality and fantasy collide and these men realise that middle-aged Hank with a blue collar job from Pigs Knuckle, Arkansas isn't really much in demand by 20 something models.

I am certainly no supporter in any way of these agencies and certainly don't condone any sort of exploitation. However, in the case of the article that you linked to a friend of mine, as I've already posted above, has a cousin who is involved with that actual site. She is paid to pretend to be interested in these men who write to the agency and she is also paid to chat with men and pretend that she is actually looking for a relationship. This is just a job for her.

Now, I am sure that if Brad Pitt turned up one day then she would genuinely be interested. But, failing that, her job is to pretend that she is a genuine member of a dating site and that she is genuinely interested in these men. That is the part that is fraudulent.

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I also agree with DadWasHere - although I wouldn't use such a bad word myself and certainly not in print.