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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Can you be a feminist housewife?

661 replies

wigglybeezer · 30/08/2011 14:00

Can you be a feminist if you don't have a career but your DH does, especially if this situation has been going on for a long time (13 years in my case)?

I don't feel downtrodden by the way, merely a bit bored and lacking in choice ATM. I earn a small amount of money, so don't have to ask DH for everything but I'm wondering if my Granny (who was a hospital consultant) was a better feminist than me. I just found a photo of her and her pals at medical school where she has noted on the back that there were 18 female medical students out of 180!

OP posts:
SinicalSal · 31/08/2011 15:48

'wee wifey pin money?' How ridiculous SM. It's 50% of whatever's left over at the end of the month. Equitable distribution of work , leisure, money, of course it's possible to be a feminist housewife if you follow that model.

scottishmummy · 31/08/2011 15:50

you are indulging in hyperbole.insulting society and women.lol
lol,gosh not wanting to be dependent upon someone else causes that much ire
well i never

SinicalSal · 31/08/2011 15:53

But he's dependent on you SM if he wants a child Confused it's joint enterprise, each contributes.

Is that the bit you don't get?

scottishmummy · 31/08/2011 15:55

look if youre happy to dip into someone else wages- fine
im not
i never have and hope i never will
i would feel compromised,and yes it would feel like pin money.and no i dont expect anyone else to feel same.but no amount of constructing a reason why i can dip into his wages doesn't cut it for me

if it suits you,and your circumstance,thats v good
arranged my circumstances and saved that i wouldn't have to do the joint money thing.to me its a fundamental attitudinal belief i value

PamSco · 31/08/2011 15:56

In my situation he is making good the essentials - that's where I agree. But if I am a frivalous spendthrift then I would never expect another to fill that gap.

He would never dare make a comment about what I spend my money on during my paid days but I would never dare expect him to pay for luxuries I can very easily do without when I'm on AML. Maybe this is personal to us - he never treats himself I have to force him to spend on himself. He isn't tight he just has basic needs (no not that way!).

Our savings are our own, we do not save together. When The Boy is here though we are opening a joint savings account for his future.

Any big expenses we have now (new kitchen next week) we go halves having agreed a budget and punt it to the house account.

We have never argued about money in our lives together, erm ok the calculation of the equity stakes in the house deeds were a lengthy discussion.

I don't know vif this is feminism in practice as I am very gender neutral as I previously posted.

TheRealMBJ · 31/08/2011 15:56

No I'm not. You are being offensive and fair enough, you like that persona. But I won't back down on my opinion that women (as a group) are financially disadvantaged by having children and that their partners should share that burden

Whether you like it or not, you may be maintaining your independence by saving your own salary but by not contributing to the loss your partner has only benefitted both financially and in having you provide a child for the family while you had to take the financial hit while working to save for your independence.

scottishmummy · 31/08/2011 15:57

i dont know what you think youre trying to convince me of sal
i never have,and dont intend joint money
simple as that
and no amount of construction about entitlement cuts it for me

TheRealMBJ · 31/08/2011 15:58

Actually, it is not my opinion [that women are disadvantaged] it is a fact.

scottishmummy · 31/08/2011 15:59

you are over personalising.no one asked you back down
nor would anyone expect you to do so
on basis of how a stranger organises her finances
now you mind find mn less adversarial if you dont conceive as wont back down

SinicalSal · 31/08/2011 16:00

Yup, it goes beyond personal preferences.

I stand by the fact that women are financially disadvantaged by having children. I don't consider particularly fair to pander to that in personal relationships - but as in so much else each to their own.

PamSco · 31/08/2011 16:04

Thinking this through in general terms my drive for independance and therefore our financial set up is filling the gap that "society" would leave me exposed to.

I absolutely agree women who take a particular role (homemaker, sahm) are disadvantaged if left high and dry. Slow steps are being taken to change that - too small and too slow.

So from a personal (feminist) stand point what is best to do?

Work your nads off and become financially independent?
Or trust in your OH?

I make no judgement on what choice people want to make - I just know mine which was shaped by having nothing as I was growing up.

scottishmummy · 31/08/2011 16:04

women are finacially disadvantaged if they give up work and become dependent upon a sole wage earner, need to know that and weigh up pro and cons

TheRealMBJ · 31/08/2011 16:07

Fair enough, SM.

I don't see parents who take on the tasks of bearing and raising children being supported financially by their partners as 'dipping into someone else's wages'

I see those wages as belonging to the family and distributed amongst family members. And believe that distribution should be equitable.

Actually even if both partners had equal income, I would see it the same way. All essential costs would be covered jointly (including childcare costs, savings and pension provision) and left-overs (if there are any) distributed equally for each to use as they wish.

Malificence · 31/08/2011 16:09

Well, hasn't this turned into a total bitch-fest, due to Scottishmummy in the main, what with all the talk of dipping into someone's wages and pin money, could you be any more insulting do you think?

When you are married / have a family, there is no such thing as his money/your money, it's family money, well it is in an equal relationship at any rate. The attitude SM has is bizarre beyond belief.

scottishmummy · 31/08/2011 16:10

yes,and thats the nub,if big pot and shared money works do it
i have never wanted it,have never done it. i don't expect anyone else to follow and as i have said joint shared monies to me is an anathema

LRDTheFeministDragon · 31/08/2011 16:10

I don't follow how, if you live as a couple, you could ever really determine who earned what and who is dependent on whom?

DH and I have no kids and I still find it complicated.

My DH goes out to work from 9-5. Does he owe me his hourly rate every time I stay in for the plumber, thus allowing him to stay at work and earn it? When he comes home stressed, we chat - does he owe me a therapists' fee? I drive the car because he can't - should I charge him local taxi rate?

I stay home and bring in more or less the same amount of money as a student grant. DH pays 75% council tax as a result (single-person rate, students don't count). Should we each pay half? I get him to proof-read my work - does that come at commercial rate or does it more or less even out against my driving him around?

Our rented house costs us each 335pcm; I was previously paying 400 pcm and he was staying with mates. Which of us gets to spend the saving? Our energy bills are lower than those for two single rooms combined - do I pay more of it because I stay in all day using the heating/electricity, or should he pay more because he likes to put the radio on for hours at the weekend?

IMO, even before you have children, it is a generalization at best, a myth at worst, to believe you can live as a normal, healthy couple and not be mutually dependent, including financially. It just doesn't happen. IMO there is nothing wrong with drawing a line and saying you're comfortable with a certain amount of shared finances but not with sharing everything - but if the way that works out is such that the woman always ends up poorer, I fail to see how you're promoting 'independence'?

TheRealMBJ · 31/08/2011 16:12

Women as a whole (obviously there are exceptions here) earn less than men for the same job this is partly justified by employers saying that they are 'risky' because they may choose to have children and therefore need to take time off to have them.

So even if you don't have a child and you never take time out of employment for them you are still disadvantaged financially just because you are a woman and you potentially could.

scottishmummy · 31/08/2011 16:12

i do believe it was alok til you squawked bitchfest
and a feminist discussion
what a curios choice of derision..so the women are all bitches?
why not disagreement etc

a women calling other women discussion a bitchfest.priceless

TheRealMBJ · 31/08/2011 16:15

Well put LRD

SinicalSal · 31/08/2011 16:16

Why 'priceless' SM?
unless you believe that all women are by default feminists, therefore everything they do and say is feminist.
I don't think you do believe that, do you?

Malificence · 31/08/2011 16:18

Doesn't. get. irony. then? Hmm
If you (deliberately) being a complete and utter bitch with your words isn't anti feminist, I don't know what is.

There was absolutely no need for you to word your comments in the derisory way you did, it was intended for one purpose only.

SinicalSal · 31/08/2011 16:18

Exactly LRD.
and when you do have kids - if you buy them the fancy red shoes for a fiver extra rather than the plain black ones - is that discretionary spending on your part that needs to be accounted for? it can be a real headmelt

Original poster
wigglybeezer · 31/08/2011 16:18

OP here, the money thing is significant. We have never had a joint account but i am a company director of DH's company and get paid dividends a few times a year. I suppose i think of that money as compensation for putting DH's career first, DH is never grudging about it and never asks me what I spend it on, it is definitely my money although i spend alot on food and bills, I buy whatever i need too. I also have money of my own from an inheritance, it definitely takes the strain off. (we are not rich BTW, we live in a flat, have modest cars and holiday in the UK).

However, DH is changing to working for someone on a salary soon, and I will not be getting dividends anymore, it has made me have a bit of a wobble about our arrangement as i will no longer be "paid" for being at home.

Reading my own posts, I fear I sound a little spoilt.

Thinking about it, the friends of mine who do work all had mothers who WOTH, usually when they started school, whereas my mother never worked after i was born. I find it hard to imagine myself with a career that is part of my problem.

OP posts:
Laquitar · 31/08/2011 16:20

In a good marriage with a normal person it doesn't make difference (assuming that you have a bank account, access to joint property and savings, you are taking part in the decisions and your status is not used against you).

In a bad and abusive marriage it does matter because it is harder to stand up to the abuser or to escape and start new life Sad

TheRealMBJ · 31/08/2011 16:22

SM you delight in offending. Everywhere on MN not just on here, and I try to see beyond that and still engage but sometimes it does my head in.