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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Can you be a feminist housewife?

661 replies

wigglybeezer · 30/08/2011 14:00

Can you be a feminist if you don't have a career but your DH does, especially if this situation has been going on for a long time (13 years in my case)?

I don't feel downtrodden by the way, merely a bit bored and lacking in choice ATM. I earn a small amount of money, so don't have to ask DH for everything but I'm wondering if my Granny (who was a hospital consultant) was a better feminist than me. I just found a photo of her and her pals at medical school where she has noted on the back that there were 18 female medical students out of 180!

OP posts:
Himalaya · 07/09/2011 16:10

I am not talking about out-sourcing childcare to nannys and housekeepers I am talking about sharing it more equally over time with the child's father.

Why do people automatically think that if a mother is not on hand to look after her children it must automatically mean it is outsourced to a lower paid woman?

Bonsoir - you say work-life balance is impossible when the crunch comes, there is always another employee out there who will put work first...but what you miss out to say is ...because they have a housewife at home that makes that possible.

Bonsoir · 07/09/2011 17:23

I don't know why we have to discount nannies and housekeepers, Himalaya. What's your reasoning? I just think it is unrealistic to think that men and women are somehow going to share work and share domestic responsibilities equally in the way you claim.

And, no, employees who are there when it comes to the crunch do not necessarily have a housewife. They can have a nanny or housekeeper. The only thing they definitely do is forego time with their children and partner.

UsingMainlySpoons · 07/09/2011 17:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bonsoir · 07/09/2011 17:29

I don't expect DP to do housework at all during the week, really - because he isn't physically here to do it. Which is the main reason why sharing domestic responsibilities is so often a non-starter. If DP has any spare time in the week, I would much rather he devoted it to his family than anything else at all. That wouldn't change if I worked the same hours outside the home as he does - we would need to outsource more.

Titbits · 07/09/2011 17:52

I think your question shows that there's still a lot to achieve in the battle for equality!
I feel confident that I'm a feminist ...I do work but from home and look after the kids and home almost exclusively because my husband works long hours. The problem comes in the response from other people...just mention the SAHM element and they can glaze over but talk about my work and the conversation gets more animated. Ok kids and housework can be dead dull..but maybe the answer is ( as has been mentioned) that you keep up the education, maintain outside interests, build your confidence levels so that you don't feel you're letting yourself down somehow...
Nb a good mother is the most important job in the world....you also get to pass on your feminist views to your kids x

SinicalSal · 07/09/2011 19:51

Bonsoir said 'I just think it is unrealistic to think that men and women are somehow going to share work and share domestic responsibilities equally in the way you claim.'

but that's the bloody point - they should, money needs to be earned, house needs to maintained! It should be shared out irrelevant of gender, surely.

scottishmummy · 07/09/2011 20:14

well no,if someone waged goes out 37+hr week no i wouldnt expect them come home and do equally half of chores etc.not if unwaged person at home not working. the person not working would do the house stuff whilst worker at work.

scottishmummy · 07/09/2011 20:16

and dont make me laugh mums isnt most important job i world,its an individual choice.you watch your own kids...and?hardly deserving of gushing praise.

Lookhere · 07/09/2011 20:59

Isn't it? Not deserving of praise? Derision then?

scottishmummy · 07/09/2011 21:11

not gushing 'ardest job in world praise.no
yes it is a significant thing to be a parent,but its not a job no
we all parent and raise our children.its what parents do

missmehalia · 07/09/2011 21:13

Oh, I think f/t parenthood is the hugest and most challenging thing I've ever done. After all, we're (almost) solely responsible for the entire behavioural/emotional/physical development of another person/other people, besides having physically formed them in the first place. We're raising the next generation of taxpayers/doctors/roadsweepers/teachers etc. Not to mention the people who will look after you in your nursing home, scottishmummy! Grin

Much harder than f/t teaching in Inner London (which I did for quite a few years) or running your own business (which I also did for a few years). And also more rewarding. I can always find another job, return to an old one or start a new one. But I will never, ever get this time back with my children while they're really young. So.. I'm quite satisfied with my lot. I suppose it helps that my partner is completely supportive about me returning to paid work whenever it works, and realises that we'd all have to share responsibility for the home-running tasks if/when I do. But I wouldn't have decided to share my life with him if he wasn't like that, I suppose...

scottishmummy · 07/09/2011 21:29

really?id say doing your own thing to your own internal standard without external pressure or attainments and tasks is incomparable.you describe tasks not a job

why the distinction about ft parent?i work ft but im always a parent,always switched on to the kids.yes i compartmentalise but no matter what im always a parent.

Himalaya · 07/09/2011 22:23

'a good mother is the most important job in the world' is much to close to 'a woman's place is in the home' for my liking.

How about 'being a good parent is one of the most important things you can do for another human being. It involves practical, emotional, intellectual and financial aspects. Apart from breastfeeding and pre-natal care there is no part of that that cannot be equally well done by a man or a woman, and there is no reason to assume that 'mothering' and 'fathering' are different roles'

...yes I know I'll need a bigger mug to fit all that on, but I like a big cup of tea Grin

scottishmummy · 07/09/2011 22:36

yes if you like clichés of female goddess and children heaved to bosoms is 'ardest job i world,then all that hallmark emotional dribble would bring a tear to a glass eye

SecretSquirrell · 08/09/2011 08:08

I'm with SM.

The hardest job is a working mother, no contest.

missmehalia · 08/09/2011 08:16

Good on both of you then, for choosing the hardest way.. though you do sound a bit angry. I personally wouldn't take on that kind of workload unless both my children were a bit older, but then I suppose we are lucky to have two adults running the show, and live somewhere where the cost of living is as low as we can make it.

NormanTebbit · 08/09/2011 08:17

Oh no me! me! I've got the hardest job! Because I do both! One in the day and one in the evening! Hurrah!

Do I win a prize?

SecretSquirrell · 08/09/2011 08:20

I'm a SAHM BTW and think it's secretly dead easy compared with a proper job.

missmehalia · 08/09/2011 08:31

And I find your comment about external pressures/standards of attainment interesting. I suppose that's why I said you sound angry, because I can't find anything in what you say to show you actually enjoy working. Lots of people I know who combine both actually find working a relief (ie being able to concentrate on just one thing at a time, easily able to justify priorities and for someone else to take responsibility for things outside your remit, getting paid for it.) There are advantages to the workplace too!

missmehalia · 08/09/2011 08:32

Grin to NormanTebbit

Beachcomber · 08/09/2011 08:47

It is, of course, possible to be a feminist and not be in paid employment.

On the subject of paying parents to parent - I live in France and that is what happens here. It works well and everyone thinks it is normal.

They don't call it 'paying housewives' they call it 'parental leave'. You get 6 months after your first child and 3 years after your second.

The 3 year bit is broken into 3 yearly chunks. Either one of the parents can decide to take it and you can either work part time or not at all - you could say not work the first year and then go back part time for the 2nd and 3rd years. Or you could take the full 3 years off.

You don't get a huge amount of money but it is pretty generous considering you get it for three years. Childcare is also subsidised. So parents who choose to go right back to work are helped too.

It is generally women who take the leave but employers are not allowed to penalise you for having taken it.

Beachcomber · 08/09/2011 08:49

Forgot to say - not everyone qualifies for this parental leave. It is not means tested but you have to have paid NI for something like 2 years out of the previous 4 years before you take the leave.

wordfactory · 08/09/2011 09:23

Beachcomber do people actually take it? If so is it women or men who do so?

For me the important thing is that the DC are looked after and the house runs vaguely efficiently. How and who does it is a moot point.

Bonsoir · 08/09/2011 09:55

LOL scottishmummy, at only 37 hours a week WOH I really would expect a major domestic contribution. 37 hours a week is a PT job in my world Wink

Beachcomber · 08/09/2011 10:07

Yes, lots of people take it. It is generally women who take it though.

Lots of people do, lots of people don't. But the option is there and then people decide what they want to do based on their own circumstances. Which I think is pretty cool.

I would say in my circle of acquaintances , about half the families took the leave and about half didn't. I don't know any men who have done it but that is kind of another issue. It is legislatively an equal opportunity but of course we then get into a whole bunch of other issues.