"Being happy is not a feminist issue"

[HerBeX]

This caught my eye on another thread, but I didn't want to de-rail and I thought it was interesting in the context of marriages, relationships etc.

My immediate response was "isn't it"?

On one level, of course it isn't, it's an overall human issue (but that's true of lots of feminist issues too).

But then I thought, well, there's this whole hetero-normative monogamy propaganda out there, women are constantly being told that the way to gain happiness is to bag a man and live with him until one of you dies and yet nearly half of all marriages now end in divorce, usually instigated by women, because clearly that hasn't made them happy - or maybe it made them happy for a while but no longer does?

Mumsnet is full of threads with unhappy women asking why they are unhappy and so far as I can see, it's generally bcause their DP's have an enormous sense of entitlement which neither partner has analysed or realised is there and so therefore can never be effectively addressed. And because men and women appear to expect very different things from marriage and partnership. And surely feminism arose from the big enlightenment question of how can people be happy. Feminism arose because lots of women realised that many of the causes of women's unhappiness, were structural rather than just individual.

All of which are feminist issues and possibly interesting enough to kick a few thoughts around?

That's straight from the Book of Genesis, isn't it:

"Unto the woman he [God] said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

I am quite freaked out that someone today would say something like that without irony.

Yeah, I find that my (female) minister tends to avoid the book of Genesis

Hmm. My church has a woman vicar and another woman who's training to be a vicar ... still didn't stop one of the other vicars doing a father's day sermon about how it's just naturally more difficult to be a dad because men find it harder to be affectionate what with going out to work and being busy.

I nearly walked out. Prat.

We also have an 80-something man who does fantastic, rambling, sceptical sermons about how the C of E isn't close to liberal enough, and I like him, so I stay around.

LOL that reminds me of the church I was forced to go went to when I was a kid, which had 2 very old priests, one who dragged the mass on to one and a half hours because of the long long sermons and long long pauses and one who as my mother said "anyone'd think he had a train to catch" who managed to cut the mass down to 25 minutes (the standard used to be 40 mins).

I always tried to catch Father 25 mins, rather than Father 90 mins

My PIL are very religious and told DH & ex that being unhappy wasn't a good enough reason for a divorce. THey hammered it in to them. The relationship ended with adultary on both sides (Though not until they were living apart). DH still has huge amounts of guilt over this and feels he should have stayed for the kids even though he and ex were so unhappy.

I know that's not a feminist anecdote but I think it clearly shows that happiness can even be something we are are told not to go for.

at Father 25 mins.

Jing - that's really sad.

About 3 years ago I ws at mass where the sermon was a step back in time - warning of the perils of the godless Communists in Russia. Poor old divil of a priest must have been regressing back to his youth.

Can't link to the actual survey (summarised here, but there is evidence that going to church does have a link to increased happiness, although - interestingly - it appears not so much that having faith makes you happy, as the social network that you get from being part of a group.

Which backs up some of what people have said:

• that happiness is more than having a relationship with one single other person
• that you need something beyond yourself and your family to be a part of
• possibly also that having tasks and clearly defined goals (fundraising for a charity, forming a prayer group, whatever) is more satisfying than housework or the ambiguous achievements of childrearing.

So - religion per se doesn't necessarily make you unhappy, but I think it's interpretation and application to everyday life can be destructive (as in Jing's example above). In particular, where your congregation partakes in 'groupthink' and pressures you to do something that isn't necessarily what you would choose.

I'm a practicing Catholic, but very much on the liberal wing, and am as as some atheists about some of the interpretations of the Bible I hear.

For those who don't actually believe in god, isn't going to church a bit pointless? Why don't they join a social club of some kind?

My mum goes to church for the religious element, but she also is a member of a knitting/ embroidery club, and this is her main social life. They get together, ostensibly to discuss patterns/ techniques/ whatever you do with knitting, but mainly to have a good gossip and drink copious amounts of tea. It seems to keep her happy!

Coming back to the quote in the OP - I took that as a bit of a non sequitur in its original context. Sorry can't remember who said it - are you on this thread? - but I thought it meant something like "don't worry about the theory, just get what you need in practice" as if the theory gets in the way of the practice and a person in extremis need not bother with theory, or shouldn't.

But the theory informs the practice and can be vitally sustaining to a person in extremis.

I feel there is a false dichotomy being drawn between theory and action; and a potentially dangerous one as it plays into the idea that feminism is a verbal luxurious pastime of building castles in the sky, and those who are forced to live "real" life will find themselves dispensing with it.

On the subject of religion - yes, it has been shown that religious people are less inclined to depression. If you are intent on interrogating your monotheistic religion of choice in any detail you may, as a feminist, find it hostile to you and this is another way in which a source of happiness becomes unavailable.

Treats - the liberal wing of the catholic church? Does it actually exist, or do you mean a notional "wing" in which those brought up catholic and don't want to leave hang around with their fingers in their ears going "la la la I can't hear you"?

vezzie - there is a liberal wing - with which I more self-identify than am actually a member of iyswim. It's not -unfortunately - the most vocal part of the church, but it does exist.

this is an interesting blog - not least for the 'Inquiries on Feminist Issues' section.