"Being happy is not a feminist issue"

[HerBeX]

This caught my eye on another thread, but I didn't want to de-rail and I thought it was interesting in the context of marriages, relationships etc.

My immediate response was "isn't it"?

On one level, of course it isn't, it's an overall human issue (but that's true of lots of feminist issues too).

But then I thought, well, there's this whole hetero-normative monogamy propaganda out there, women are constantly being told that the way to gain happiness is to bag a man and live with him until one of you dies and yet nearly half of all marriages now end in divorce, usually instigated by women, because clearly that hasn't made them happy - or maybe it made them happy for a while but no longer does?

Mumsnet is full of threads with unhappy women asking why they are unhappy and so far as I can see, it's generally bcause their DP's have an enormous sense of entitlement which neither partner has analysed or realised is there and so therefore can never be effectively addressed. And because men and women appear to expect very different things from marriage and partnership. And surely feminism arose from the big enlightenment question of how can people be happy. Feminism arose because lots of women realised that many of the causes of women's unhappiness, were structural rather than just individual.

All of which are feminist issues and possibly interesting enough to kick a few thoughts around?

Ah, ninja, I can definitely see that some of those items on that list are feminist issues.

Why do you think there is hatred of single mothers HerBeX? What is the rationale for them being a threat?

This thread is going right over my head, sorry. All I can think is, if feminism isn't making you happy - not all the time but the majority of it - you're not doing it right.

I think that women are more vulnerable to unhappiness, and part of that is biology IMHO. The hormone rollercoaster can be a complete arseache.

A lot of women have a sense of entitlement that is generationally inspired: they were brought up by mothers who ruled over house/home/children and who dreamed of power and money. They managed successfully to raise daughters who were able to hold their own in the world of work, but found it very difficult to relinquish any hold on house/home/children.

Mitch, I'm not sure that's true either

I don't buy the hormones theory of unhappiness. Men have just as many hormones as women, just in different amounts.

That list is interesting, definitely being valued, having time to do stuff you like and having control and decision making ability.

Here's a link to an Australian study re marriage and happiness

if you worked at your relationships and didn't kick the man out or cheat on him, they probably wouldn't be single parents. They could just use contraception

I'm wth HerBex. I'd say that more than half of the marriages that break up because of non-specific reasons (i.e. general 'unhappiness' as opposed to abuse or infidelity) are brought about because of an unfair division of domestic labour. I am basing this on anecodotal evidence both on here and in RL, but as I have moved in very many different social circles all over the country and abroad, I am convinced that empirical research would back me up. (It might already be out there for all I know?)

That is a feminist issue. It's 2011. How come women are still bearing the brunt of domestic labour? (And I'm only counting housework here, not childcare; the situation looks even worse if you do that).

I'm a single mother. I have to say that in RL I've never received any negative comments (apart from a well-known local man who hates everyone and clearly has MH issues). The stereotyping I see in the media though, deliberately IMO led by politicians (of all colours) sometimes makes me feel very sad. It's scapegoating. It serves no purpose other than political capital gained by whipping people up into self-righteousness and deflecting anger away from where it ought to be directed.

What troubles me is that people are guilty of perpetuating these attitudes even though they nearly always qualify it with "but I don't mean people like you, I mean those other single mothers" (the ones who have 20 kids by 20 fathers by the age of 21 and live in a 10-bedroomed council house paid for by tax payers etc). What they don't realise of course is that most single mothers are like me (30s, divorced/separated, working) not like the stereotype.

Chickens that's a big question and deserves a thread to itself.

In fact, this thread deals with some of the reasons why (I think)

I'm not saying it's all down to hormones for everyone, but as a sufferer of horrendous PMT and hormone based depression I can vouch for the fact that body chemistry can totally fuck you over. The ups and downs can, for some women, be quite debilitating. I certainly know a lot of women who suffer with various gynaecology complaints and are unhappy for it. Maybe men suffer from hormone issues but they just don't go to the doctor or discuss it as much. Perhaps that skews the figures to an extent.

I'm happy being a single mother thanks edd and am not interested in working on relationships with shit men.

HTH. Now do fuck off and stop trying to shit stir, there's a dear

First posting ever in feminism (thread in most active).
Isn't the concept of 'happiness' a fairly modern idea? I mean that untill recently most people were focussed on survival and it is only fairly recently that we have had the luxury of focussing on happiness. I don't think previous generations were bought up to expect to be happy, they were bought up expecting to work hard and if possible 'do good'.
I think there is too much focus now (media led?) on happiness as a main goal and that if people accepted that everything isn't always a huge amount of fun instead they might actually be happier! The old fashioned concept of contentment. For example people are encouraged to find a job they 'love' rather than a realistic, sensible career in line with their abilities.
I think women are particularly prone to over analysing their 'happiness' and expecting too much, I blame wretched magazines! we have also been bought up to believe that we can 'have it all' - fab family and great career. For most of us that ain't true! I went to a v academic school but now wish I'd learnt to sew and cook at school - would have been more useful than physics!
So yes feminisim has freed us from much drudgery and opened up opportunities, but bought different challenges with it.

I see the media blaming lack of a father figure too. There we have a problem

I think happiness is a feminist issue because so many women put their own happiness below that of their partners, children, families, work colleagues, etc. So many women are not assertive enough to put their own needs first, the needs that would lead to more happiness for them. And when women do try to put their own needs first, they are often accused of being selfish and guilted into not doing whatever they want to do.

You see it over and over in Relationships -- I'm so unhappy but I don't have a good reason to leave. Ai yi yi, being unhappy is a good reason! Or the recent thread where a woman wondered if it was okay to go on holiday without her teenagers, and people responded telling her she was a selfish cow. What the hell?

Yes certainly, Chickens, but the production of hormones is also dependent on the situation of the person producing them IYSWIM.

So we know that babies who are frightened, stressed etc. produce high levels of cortisone. But it's not the cortisone that is causing the stress, it's the stress that causes the cortisone to be produced as far as I understand it.

So I think when we look at "hormonal" causes of unhappiness, we need to take into account that the hormones may not be a cause, but a symptom, of the problem.

Interesting point, qwepoi. So the idea is that because we are so focused on happiness, we're actually less happy? And if I had my way all of those so called 'women's magazines' would be consigned to a special corner of hell. I have never flicked through one without wanting to kill myself.

Bennifer?

God, I love jettisoning all that tedious 'hold on house and home' stuff. What's not to want to relinquish? Ditto childcare. I love my children, but I much prefer an equitable distribution of childcare as much as domestic work (well, ideally I'd do no domestic work but you have to have a Y chromosome to get away with that one).

dreaming - but perhaps if women stopped worrying about trying to be happy by eg going on hols without children and tried to make their children's lives as happy as poss they would be happier. Finding reward in caring for others? My Grandmother would never have stopped to consider if she was 'happy' she just looked after people and found great satisfaction from doing so.

Yes dream and so often, the response to women being unhappy, is "work on your relationship then"

Women spend so much time working on their relationships - far more than men by hte looks of it - and still they're unhappy.

And then they are told (by idiots) that if they don't work on their relationships, shock, horror they might end up - aaaaaaaaaaargh - single! Oh the horror!

And I'm a journalist who works in women's mags and is a lifelong feminist, btw.

Fine, MI, but it's not the case for a lot of women who grew up being told that they were entitled to have it all, and, crucially, do want it all. Lucky souls who don't care about either house/home/childcare or a career, because it is combining the two satisfactorily that causes a massive amount of women's exhaustion (--> depression).

Women are told far too much that our reward is in caring for others! Why is it?

My grandmother, incidentally, committed suicide with PND.

To an extent HerBeX. But some of us just have wonky ovaries that hate us.