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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Does penetration = presumption of power/control?

756 replies

skrumle · 17/08/2011 10:53

Was chatting with my H last night and mentioned the Romeo and Juliet law in Ireland that's been discussed on here a few times. Anyway, when I asked if he thought it was reasonable his immediate answer was "no". I then asked him: if our son was gay, and started a conversation about a sexual experience that he was unhappy/uncomfortable about would he be more likely to feel that our son had been forced/co-erced if he was the one penetrated rather than penetrating and got a Confused in reply...

I have to be honest, when I read the original thread on here my automatic view was that to protect girls over boys like this was to deny the fact that girls enjoy sex too, almost like taking a step back. When I read the thread fully though and thought about the implications for girls I probably did start to think that girls should have more protection than boys.

So, should there be a presumption that penetration equals a greater degree of control? So two heterosexual 15yos - greater responsibility lies with the boy to ensure that this is what both of them want?

OP posts:
AyeRobot · 22/08/2011 09:45

"most men are pretty shit in bed"

Probably not from their pov.

startAfire · 22/08/2011 09:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

AyeRobot · 22/08/2011 10:15

Drops the D bomb

ThePosieParker · 22/08/2011 10:32

I'm saying that most one night stands and bfs according to my friends were rubbish in bed and their life partners were refreshingly good, hence they stuck around. it may be a bit chicken and egg. I'm not cross either.

SardineQueen · 22/08/2011 10:36

I totally disagree that people just know what they want with sex.

Sexuality grows and matures through the years, the experiences that you have shape your desires, and women's bodies change as well. My sexual response is different (not better or worse, just different) since having my children. So our sex life has altered to accomodate what suits me now.

We try things and find we like them or don't, we try things when we are young and don't like them and then later we try again and like them.

And how can we possibly know all of the exact scenarios that will get us going? I am sure that many people watching telly or reading a book (erotic or otherwise) or even watching porn will encounter a scenario that they have never thought of before and come over all unnecessary. Subsequently that scenario might be incorporated into their fantasies and sex life.

So I totally reject the idea that people somehow just "know what they want" especially when they are very young, and most especially if they are in relationships where they do not feel able to communicate with their sexual partner.

ThePosieParker · 22/08/2011 10:57

Hang on I didn't assert that what you like is fixed, but it either feels good or it doesn't. You can fake your response but not the feeling. I'm sure lots of girls have pretended that PIV has brought them to climax.

SardineQueen · 22/08/2011 11:03

I was responding to this bit "Sexuality, aside from the reppressed, is one area where most humans know what they like with or without conditioning."

justforaminute · 22/08/2011 11:04

posie[....you said that the women on the thread said.....................]
yes i did.i was thinking about this and then writ my other post.
i explained in my other post what i thought.
i explained why i thought things wasnt equel.

[pheraps women should be more empowered............]
im looking at it from a diffrent angle entirely.
[lets face it lesbian sex is only for men......................]
thats what i was partly talking about.

sparky

ThePosieParker · 22/08/2011 12:31

Just. Your post makes little sense.

noddyholder · 22/08/2011 14:51
Hmm
ThePosieParker · 22/08/2011 14:52

Noddy there is no context.....

jellybeans208 · 22/08/2011 15:38

I think often you see on these types of discussions women saying orgasms arent that important, I want to see his pleasure, I just want the experience of being clsoe to him I dont care about orgasms/being satisfied etc. I think that is a symptom of the media focus on men because Im sure most women would take the orgasm rather than not! You wouldnt get any men saying these statements and regularly going without orgasms and there is no chance in hell I would either.

Some girls want more than this from a young age and are able to speak up from their teens whereas some take years and I think that is where the sex gets better when your older thing comes from as some women take a long time to speak up they could of done it years early if they had spoke up. I think in some ways it is cultural. There are many ways to assure orgasm with piv with clitoral stimulation as well such as toys, play etc so focus shouldnt all be on unequal pleasure. It gets me frustrated when I see this type of debate becuase I dont like the idea of women getting a raw deal

VictorGollancz · 22/08/2011 15:47

Penetration could cause me to orgasm until I faint from exhaustion, and I still don't think it would be adequate compensation for the consequences of accidental conception.

noddyholder · 22/08/2011 15:47

jfam posie is right that makes absolutely no sense and sounds a bit deranged.

Prolesworth · 22/08/2011 15:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ThePosieParker · 22/08/2011 16:08

I can read, but her comments are mid thougjt, mid sentence type comments and as I'm not in her mind I don't what she means.

SardineQueen · 22/08/2011 16:19

jellybeans I think you are reading what you want to read.

Your earlier point "I was saying for the people who said they didnt want as much piv but their men didnt want to do oral." made me raise an eyebrow as I hadn't seen anyone on the thread say that, and wondered who you were talking to, but I didn;t say anything as it seemed a bit petty.

But now "I think often you see on these types of discussions women saying orgasms arent that important, I want to see his pleasure, I just want the experience of being clsoe to him I dont care about orgasms/being satisfied etc." only one person said anything approaching that and they were disagreed with.

So I' not sure who you're addressing with your comments, you seem to be saying what you want to say irrespective of whether it actually relates to the thread or not.

justforaminute · 22/08/2011 16:20

my posts are not deranged at all.
ive already said that im looking at it from a diffrent angle...which is..
we live in a patriarchic society where men are favoured more than women[mostly].
in this we are told that piv is better than anything else.
[in stories/films ect ect ect lovemaking always end up with piv eg]
this is the be all and end all.
women internilise this..[and so do men]........so if they dont really like piv they are too scared to say [sometimes]in case they are then told"there is something wrong with you"or "youre not as good as the next woman"ect[sometimes]
so with this in mind piv can be power/control.
i actually cant see why this doesnt make any sense.

sparky

stripeybump · 22/08/2011 16:22

Jellybeans, no-one on this thread has said they enjoy PIV sex without orgasms - I mentioned an aspect of it being the top-to-toe closeness to my partner, but I also find I can only orgasm during PIV sex, which is probably the main reason it's my favourite sexual activity. Did someone upthread mention CAT? Wink

I'm aware I'm in the minority judging by female-centred media which seems to suggest most women find it easier to orgasm via other sexual activity. In this case then of course either improve PIV technique and position or use other tactics. Women faking orgasm makes me Sad

As I accept that PIV sex makes a man feel powerful (and that this is ok and normal) then a consequence of this is that I suppose he may feel a bit of a failure if he cannot stimulate his partner enough with his penis. Can't see an easy answer to that really but I think and hope most modern men in happy relationships are willing to put their partner's sexual satisfaction before his own pride.

ThePosieParker · 22/08/2011 16:25

Sparky, it's rude beyond belief to suggest that women, pretty strong minded women like custy, who say they like PIV are in unequal relationships.

WE're not told that PIV is better than anything else, it's a natural urge for most people that sexual encounters lead to this. It's how you and I both came to be here. And the thought that Hollywood movies don't show other sex is purely because other sex acts are more about sex than 'love making' and intimacy. A blow job, cunninglingus cannot have long loving looks.

SardineQueen · 22/08/2011 16:28

posie you are misunderstanding sparky's posts

and being very rude to her

LRDTheFeministDragon · 22/08/2011 16:31

Makes perfect sense to me sparky.

posie, we are told PIV is better than anything else, just read this thread and you will find people who don't even realize that anything other than PIV is sex.

And I totally disagree that other sex is more about intimacy - why so? Just because it is like that for you, doesn't mean it is for everyone. I doubt most lesbians find the image of PIV especially reminiscent of lovemaking, for starters.

stripeybump · 22/08/2011 16:31

There is a clear divide on this thread between posters who think that PIV sex is naturally and biologically the ultimate sexual activity for both men and women, and those who think that PIV sex is put on a pedestal by men through the media and other patriarchal means.

justforaminute · 22/08/2011 16:34

dont twist my words posie...im saying nothing of the sort[....are in unequel relashionships]
yes we are told that piv is better than anything else [i do agree that its a natural urge though].
well yes..[other sex acts are more about sex ]
and this is what im getting at...there is diffrent ways to make love[obviously]
but this is seen as "just sex"an d not really lovemaking.

sparky

justforaminute · 22/08/2011 16:37

stripey-thank fuck for youre post....thankyou.[16.31]
yes this is what im saying.

sparky