My 9y old DD is visiting a mosque with the school & has been told to cover her head.

[Bohica]

I don't want my daughter having to wear something different than the boys have to wear & for the girls to be told to cover up whilst the boys walk freely in their own clothes.

It's going to raise questions from my DD that I am not prepared/willing to talk to her about as I strongly believe that men & women are equal.

I'm not sure how to say no without raising questions either!

My DD went last week and the boys had to wear a hat too!!
Im deeply religious, but want her to learn that not everyone has the same belief as us, and not everyone has the same "rules" towards woman as we do.
She learnt alot and even had a long dicussion on why men and woman pray seperately.

St Mark's is modest dress, for both sexes, no head covering required.
If head covering is required, no big deal, catholics did it until quite recently.

You nit allowed to know that stuff then greythorne? But if yiu do t learn it then how can you know its not right?

Reading this thread somewhat nervously as I am about to organise a trip to a mosque!
I do feel that for half an hour I can fall in line with the practices of a different culture/religion. If I didn't, I would never be able to learn as much about the beliefs of others. I have removed shoes/covered hair as required. For those who couldn't do this, I wonder what you'd do if invited to a wedding or funeral were this was the expectation? This is not an issue that I believe compromises my feminist principles, though it's very interesting for me to learn how it affects some others. I think others might perceive the actions as anti-islamic rather than pro-gender equality.

Riven
I think it is fine to learn both about religions and how different religions treat women differently. I don't think compromising one's own principles by forcing a child to cover her head / hajr is necessary for either of these objectives. Supergreenuk's comment that "it's all part of the culture" suggested to me that she was in favour of these girls covering up in order to participate in the class trip. That is my axe. These girls should not have to cover up to learn about religion or culture or anything else.

I didnt read supers comment that way. Personally i am more than happy to dress a certain way in other faiths houses of worship. I like visiting temples and buildings.

I find tv, magazines and stories far more damaging to girls than a possible religious trip where girls would put on a piece of cloth or boys wear a skullcap in a synagogue.
When i went to a hindu wedding i wore a sari. The men didnt have too. So?

I suspect thus is the schools request rather than the mosques. The only mosques I know that ask girls to cover heads as mandatory also ask the same of boys.

Again, what is the explanation for why girls must cover their hair but NOT boys? Both sexes have heads, both have hair, so what is the rationale for treating the boys and girls differently - in terms a 9 year old can understand?

This isn't about adopting a religious or cultural style of dress to show respect. It is about a belief that it is wrong to expose girls' hair, but not wrong to expose boys' hair.

I feel the same when other religions require a gender distinction too; caps for boys but not for girls.

I take Riven's point that this is most likely a stuff up by the school, but the question remains to be answered.

Thebossofme

That is the ideal solution. All heads covered, or none.

I think what I find perplexing on this thread is the constant references to respect for other people's belief, it just being feminist theorising, it not being an issue etc.

I am genuinely interested to know if people think feminism is just an excuse to be awkward. Do you think that belief in gender equality isn't an important part of people's lives, and that it is a deeply held belief, worthy of respect? Why is the OP's desire for her daughter not to wear a head scarf just as worthy as another mothers religious belief that her daughter must wear a headscarf?

I cannot see why one is being treated as trivial and obstructive while the other is being treated as worthy of respect. Surely both beliefs should be treated with equal respect?

MillyR
Do you know what religion is? It is a set of beliefs or superstitions or fears or stories. I can accept that some people choose to believe supserstitious stories but as an atheist, I don't need to respect their superstitions to the point of subjugating myself.

I would never wear a headscarf or force my child to wear one to "respect" others' superstitions.

My belief that men and women are equal suoerceds that and I can't see younarguing that my belief - not based on superstition - should be respected.

Supercedes

Have only skimmed the thread but is it possible that this particular mosque insists on girls covering their heads - even 9yos who aren't Muslims? Equally of course the school may have assumed, so that's worth checking. Contact the mosque and ask them. And then let the school know if they are wrong, so your dd isn't the only one not to wear a headscarf.

I don't like sexism either but I suspect when I was a child, I'd have quite liked wearing a headscarf on a school trip had it been necessary - would have made it more interesting/different. Although I might have questioned why only the girls and not the boys. (My Mother had me trained, those sappy Peter and Jane books came with feminist commentary when she was reading them. 'Why can't Jane help Daddy wash the car? Why can't Peter help Mummy wash up? Why can't Daddy wash up and Mummy fix the car? This book is silly, isn't it?')

Greythorne, I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing quite the opposite. What I'm saying is that just as we respect the rights of a woman to wear a headscarf because of her beliefs, the rights of a woman not to wear a headscarf because of her beliefs about equality should be likewise respected.

As I said earlier in the thread, I don't respect religious belief, but I respect the right of others to hold them.

I don't feel a need to question an individual woman about the reasons why she does or does not wear a headscarf, nor do I feel a need to make assumptions about a woman based on what she does or does not wear. But I do feel a school has no right to tell girls that they must or must not wear a headscarf.

In fact, I am confused by your response.

My post said:

'Do you think that belief in gender equality isn't an important part of people's lives, and that it is a deeply held belief, worthy of respect?'

And you responded:

' I can't see younarguing that my belief - not based on superstition - should be respected.'

I surely am arguing that it is worthy of respect?!

"But I do feel a school has no right to tell girls that they must or must not wear a headscarf."

I think that depends on the policy of the mosque. If the mosque demands that girls must cover their hair then surely it is up to the school to inform the parents so that the children come prepared. It would look bad for the school if none of the girls had headscarves and they were turned away for being inappropriately dressed.

No, it is up to the school to either get in contact with a more appropriate mosque through an appropriate Muslim education organisation so that there is no need to tell the girls what to wear, or to make it clear that the trip is optional.

I am really glad that my children have never been required to visit religious buildings, so have not had to go through any of this.

If you dont want to visit a building of a certain faith then dont go. Then no fussing about beliefs or respect or nothing.
Its like the temples in Bali. No menstruating women are allowed in them. I dont agree with that belief but its not my temple. So i have to respect what the temple users want. Or not go.
Or like visiting someone with a shoes off house policy. If you dont agree and cant bear to follow someones rules then dont go.
So the op could withdraw her child from the trip. But i would check with the actual mosque first. The school might have got the wro end of the stick or be ignorant about customs too. Who knows.
Has the OP been back with an update?

Ooo, just thought of anither example which was mentioned on another thread. Someone said in posh country houses the women are expected to withdraw after dinner and leave the men to important stuff. I think thats awful. So i just wouldnt go if invited to a posh dinner party like that.

When my older 3 were little milly they had to visit the local church as part of y2 trip. Not only did the guitar playing vicar tell them they were going to hell if they didnt go to church, he told them old buildings had ghosts of the damned in. Cheers mate, years of anxious kids.
I knkw thats not gender doodah but it was bloody annoying.

But the shoes off thing would be equally 'wrong' if men were allowed to keep theirs on!

Now don't get me started on school swimming lessons where girls have to wear swimming hats but boys don't!

Really? Not that i know schools actually did swimming lessons. My older three never made it past year two and the youngest is in Y2 right now.

In the school the boys went to to do gcses and A levels the girls HAD to wear skirts. Trousers not allowed.

And boys arent allowed to wear skirts.

Oh yeah, the uniform fiasco. I'm in the middle of wording an email to dd2's head about the inequalities and cost differences between the uniforms. E.g. girl's blouse - £10 from outfitters, boy's shirt £2 from Asda.

Sorry to digress op.

Riven, that does not surprise me at all. Mine have been told all manner of peculiar things by visiting Christian representatives.

DD has had a much more positive experience of Islam than of other religions. The school set up a partnership with a school in the neighbouring county, where almost the entire school is Muslim. They frequently spend a day with their year group at the other school, or the other school comes to them. It is a shame that primary schools have become so segregated, but it does more to promote understanding than guitar playing vicars.

DS is doing the new RE GCSE, so will be looking at it through aesthetics and representation rather than beliefs.