My 9y old DD is visiting a mosque with the school & has been told to cover her head.

[Bohica]

I don't want my daughter having to wear something different than the boys have to wear & for the girls to be told to cover up whilst the boys walk freely in their own clothes.

It's going to raise questions from my DD that I am not prepared/willing to talk to her about as I strongly believe that men & women are equal.

I'm not sure how to say no without raising questions either!

Agree with Kittens.

It may be sad that you feel I have a narrow view of muslim women but surely by posting what I feel here & asking for advice is not passing any prejudice on to my DD?

And, I know very little about Islam but that doesn't mean I want to stand in the way for my daughter to be educated. That's why I am posting here.

I have said it's not the religious beliefs I have any issue with it's the whole girls need to be different to be able to go on the trip but boys can stay the same as normal.

If DD had asked me why she has to wear it but the boys don't then I would explain why but she hasn't, she is happy to go along with it all & that is why I haven't spoken to her.

I didn't post here about religion, I posted because I'm not happy that DD is being told she has to change her normal clothing but the boys don't need to.

OP
you need more info
I would not have thought a pre-pubescent child would need to cover her head
It might be hearsay

But if it transpires she is being asked to cover her head, clearly she should not. Jack shit to do with "respect for religious beliefs".

What about "respect" for those who believe circumcision is essential?
What about "respect" for those who believe humans are thetans and arrived from a faraway planet?

Dittany, as usual, is right.

And as for "Riven will have an interesting and informed opinion on this". I find that patronising; identification politics par excellence. Can't we all have an interesting and informed opinion on this without being muslim?

From a lot of posts here tonight I am feeling the request has come from the school & not the mosque.

Greythorne - spot on!

The letter that came home from school has a paragraph that reads:

Children will need to wear school uniform and girls need to bring a scarf to cover their heads during the visit.

And if it's a synagogue next week how will you feel?

Unfit
Presumably exactly the same!

The only way your daughter will grow up without prejudice is to experience different cultures and to understand why things are done a certain way. Show a bit of respect and send her with a head scarf. You don't have to be treated exactly the same to be equal.

I have already regretted bringing Riven's name up, don't worry.
However, I do still think that a woman who identifies herself as a feminist and happens to be a muslim could have something of value to add to the OP's question.

I have no problem with challenging religions or belief systems that denigrate women or any other group of people, but I still think during a one off visit to a place of worship of whatever religion, that religion's customs ought to be respected.

I suppose I would not feel that strongly about covering my own head for a visit to a mosque .
And I would imagine (but admittedly, don't know) that what is to be gained from such a visit outweighs whatever compromise I might make on the day.

As to the 'rules' for prepubescent girls, I have no idea. But I am sure a muslim will know.

Then I would challenge the school as to why they have requested this.

It is usual to cover your head in a mosque, but I would have thought that mosques that are willing to have school trips to visit would not expect the girls to cover their heads.

It is a sad fact of British muslim life that it's actually fashionable to cover your little girl's head, sometimes in a scarf co-ordinated with her outfit.

I guess muslims are not immune from the image obsessed, shallow, consumerist slant that non-muslims are also guilty of.

I have muslim inlaws and have visited their mosque many times, for parties, events and evening classes.

I am not muslim and I don't join them for prayer (it is a large mosque with function rooms etc). I have not once been asked to cover my head.

However I have 3 daughters who do go to prayers with mil, and she likes their heads to be covered. I have learned to go along with it.

My husband is secular, and at home we are not religious. I actually like them going to mosque as it strengthens their relationship with mil, sharpens their Arabic, gives them another community, and teaches them some decent values.

Then when they come home I pick apart things they've been taught as doctrine, and we all argue discuss.

I don't know why I'm posting about our family situation, except that having contact with Islam as a non-muslim has been rewarding and enriching, as well as frustrating.

Good luck with her trip, I'm sure they won't eat her

To clarify, I am a feminist but not muslim. I am happy for my dds to visit mosque and pray with mil, and for her to ask them to cover their heads. I see no tension here, when they are with mil I expect them to follow her instructions from everything from eating of greens to covering heads.

I live in a muslim country and am not required to cover my head as I not a Muslim.
I have a 9 year old and she would love to know why she may have to cover her hair.
Think its more to do with respect rather than a womans place in society. She will learn such a lot from the trip

I believe girls are required to 'cover up' from 12 years

It was in Egypt, but when we visited a mosque we were asked to dress modestly meaning to cover shoulders and knees.

There is a difference between respecting someone's right to hold a belief without interference in a democratic society and respecting the actual belief.

I respect the right of Muslim women to wear a headscarf for whatever their individual reason is. It doesn't make a difference to me if an individual woman is wearing a headscarf because of a deeply held religious belief or because of culture or because of fashion.

But I don't respect the actual belief if it is religious in nature; I simply respect the right to hold it. So I would not agree to my DD going to a place that was going to make such a distinction about women. I agree that children should learn about religion, but they could politely and sensibly go to another mosque where the girls didn't have to wear a headscarf, without the children being led to believe that the beliefs themselves are inherently worthy of respect. They are merely worthy of polite behaviour in a space that the children are visitors to.

Just wait until they visit a Christian church. Then the boys will be told to take their hats off--and how sweet revenge will be!

There isn't a rule that mens can't wear hats in church. If there was, there would be no such thing as a biretta.

It is merely polite, when a vistor, to follow the norms-'when in Rome'.
I would think it incredibly rude for a male or female to go into a catholic church in Spain in shorts and vest top or boys to keep a baseball cap on in a place of worship. It is a question of respect.
I hate to take my shoes off in someone's house, but if asked I politely do so-not argue about my rights!

I think pretty much everyone would agree that it is manners to observe the customs of a place that you are visiting. If you don't agree with the customs, then don't go, and visit a mosque that doesn't have that requirement instead.

I am really interested in the idea of this raising questions that you're not prepared to go into... Has your dd never seen/asked about muslim women that you see in everyday life (supermarket, park, wherever)? I know that with my own dds we'd done 'Why do those ladies cover their heads/faces/entire bodies?' and had moved on by the age of about 3 or 4.

More specifically, my dd2 did visit a mosque when she was in Year 2 (so was 6 or 7) and was asked to cover her head. I do identify myself as a feminist, and dd knows very well that we consider men and women to be equal. However, I allowed her to go to the mosque, because actually we 'do' male/female equality every single day (in the sense that it is one of the principal values that our family lives by), whereas the chance to do something to promote religious tolerance and understanding through this visit was a one-off experience, and one that I wanted her to have.

If you feel strongly enough about it, OP, then don't send your dd on the trip. I would respect that position. But don't hide the reason for doing so; explain to her why you are objecting. If you feel that strongly she deserves to understand your pov.

(Incidentally, the only parents who didn't send their kids on the mosque trip when my dd's class went were the ones who objected on religious (Christian) grounds to their children finding out about other religions. Personally (and I am a Christian myself), I find that more unacceptable than agreeing to wear a headscarf...

You also need to think of your DD, when I was 9yrs I would have wanted the floor to swallow me up if my mother had made a fuss about a principle-I would have been so embarrassed.

I see girls as young as 4 and 5 wearing headscarves where I live. The little girl next door has to wear one to the mosque, since about age 5. I have seen others around wearing scarves at even younger ages. And I don't think it says anything about that in the Koran, about any woman of any age being covered up like that.

I told my DD that if we went to Iran she'd have to wear a headscarf and she said she didn't want to go. It's not that realistic that we would go there, but I have friends there, and met some of them recently when they were visiting London. The woman was wearing trousers and said that you just have to have a bandana or even a hat, it doesn't have to cover all your hair or something.

You can say why you don't agree with things, but like some of the others, I don't think 9 is too young to talk about different faiths and cultures. I don't think the conversation needs to be about sexuality, just customs in different places. In some places tourists or visitors have to cover their shoulders in churches, too, it's just a way of being respectful in that environment. Of course you can also choose not to visit religious establishments.

I'm interested in the age at which girls cover their hair. In ds1's pre-school class there are two girls who wear headscarves every day and they are 3 or 4.