My 9y old DD is visiting a mosque with the school & has been told to cover her head.

[Bohica]

I don't want my daughter having to wear something different than the boys have to wear & for the girls to be told to cover up whilst the boys walk freely in their own clothes.

It's going to raise questions from my DD that I am not prepared/willing to talk to her about as I strongly believe that men & women are equal.

I'm not sure how to say no without raising questions either!

Incidentally, my son is unlikely to go this year on the trip.
Partly to do with being an atheist family that has no respect for ANY superstition and partly to do with the fact that I don't want him to see his female class mates having to show deference or subserviance because they haven't got a dick.

For those of you who feel uneasy about this -- would it make a difference if the headscarf were a cultural, not religious practice?

The Quran does not instruct women to wear headscarves, as I understand it says only to dress modestly. Different Muslim cultures around the world interpret this differently.

If the headscarf were a strictly religious practice, then I would expect to see Muslims doing so in Africa, Bosnia, Central Asia, Indonesia -- but you don't (as a rule).

SOME Muslims wear the headscarf, some don't.

I would wear a headscarf as a sign of respect if the mosque asked, and I think it's good to teach children about respect for different cultures at a young age. That's not the same thing as teaching your kid that the repression of women is okay, but I appreciate that's a pretty nuanced discussion for a nine-year-old.

I have never been in a mosque where women were ordered ro cover their heads. Dds class did a trip a couple of months ago and it wasnt mentio ed. P,us all girls and boys were downstairs together.
Heck, i take dd with me to various London mosques when i need to pray, she is 19 and dresses however she wants and not a peep has been mafe. She co es in, takes off her shoes and stelles down with a book in the prayer area.
I think id question if the school have asked this without checki with the mosque because its not required, especially for pre puberty girls.

Bohemian, it may be a nuanced discussion for a nine-year-old but it's not for a headteacher. Why choose a mosque that demands cover-up, why not go for a more moderate one?

OP should speak directly to the mosque and see if they are demanding it or whether it is the school's (mis?)interpretation.

Headcoverage not needed for pre pubescent girls. The school is overthinking this.

I agree that the school may have made assumptions. Some of the girls at my DDs school where headscarves as yound as 6, but that is their families not the mosque insisting they do as they feel the younger they start the easier it will be when they get older. I personally don't wear a headscarf, but my sisters do as they feel its something that is important to them.

Yes, it's respectful to follow customs: but if you don't respect the custom?

I wouldn't respect this custom of inequality so I kinda feel the way you do. But no idea why you wouldn't discuss it with her - definitely possible to do so without seeming prejudiced or hysterical.

it may cause more questions from your daughter if she does not go on the trip - and you are not giving HER the option to make her own decision

i believe that you should show respect for other peoples beliefs and traditions
whatever you may think yourself

I don't think it's necessary to show respect for customs and traditions which do not value social or sexual equality. It's not as if she's going to force her way into a mosque without a headscarf is it? It's different from, say, both sexes being asked to cover legs and shoulders in a Hindu temple.

Agreed. I wouldn't show any respect for any customs that require a woman to walk three paces behind a man, get her feet bound or have her clit cut off.

Plenty did and do, however.

Indigo don't be inflammatory, foot binding and FGM are illegal, we're just talking about a headscarf.

You don't have to respect the institution of the veil broadly but isn't that different from being respectful in a holy place? I think it's just manners -- nothing is forcing you to go into a mosque but if you choose to do so, you should be respectful (both men and women have to remove shoes for example).

It's not "just" a headscarf, or it wouldn't matter if you "just" didn't wear it. It means something. That's the something you choose to respect and the something that I wouldn't.

Ive been in sikh and hindu temples and temples in various parts of the world and always respected the local customs and requirements.

From my understanding, mosques vary in their traditions (head scarf or no, for example,) just as Christian churches and synagogues vary. The church I attended as a child frowned on women and girls in trousers. Others didn't mind. In some men's and women's classes were separate, in others together, (and none of this stopped me being a feminist!) So, I don't think you'll find a "rule" for all of Islam regarding head covering any more than you'll find a rule that applies to every Christian congregation, or even every atheist, agnostic or humanist for that matter.

In common with others, I have Muslim friends and colleagues who are feminists but chose to wear hijab. They do not see it as a symbol of oppression or conflicting with feminism any more than many women who wear nail varnish or heels feel disqualified from being a feminist.

I think there's alot of truth in this cartoon. spookysage.tumblr.com/post/5812696209/image-scanned-from-a-newspaper-a-lightly

I wonder if sometimes people are frightened of what they don't know or understand so jump to portray it as something bad. That fear can be easily passed onto kids. It can be a short few steps between fear, intolerance and hatred. I would hope that parents who are genuinely committed to social equality would wish to avoid that outcome. Exposing even young children to difference won't contaminate them. They'll make up their own minds in the end.

(First post here, so hope I haven't poked my nose in too far.)

KriKri, but this isn't an issue over Muslim women choosing to wear the hijab; it is about a group of female children being told by a school that they have to wear a head scarf. The reasonable solution if the OP doesn't want her daughter to have to wear one is to not go on the trip. She could then make alternative arrangements for her daughter to visit a mosque.

Sidge. I have seen children of 5 covering their heads. I spoke to a muslim woman about this and she said many families make the very young children wear headscrarves so that when they reach puberty they are used to wearing it and don't make a fuss. It is normally the mosque that that asks them to wear the head covered. )which is conveyed to the children via the school.
My son has visited a mosque also and the girls of 9 wear asked to cover their heads and many parents did not want to go along with it, but did to keep the peace. The visit to the mosque is normally optional.

complimentary that's interesting, in that it's the parents making the choice to cover their daughter's heads rather than it being expected by a mosque.

When I lived in the Middle east as a child we weren't expected to cover our hair until puberty and that applied to the Arabic girls too, but it appears to be an individual decision rather than a blanket 'policy'.

KriKri I totally agree

Why do you agree bohemian? Are there school trips where the girls are told they have to wear a bikini and heels? What does these posts about the choices of adult women have to do with an instruction given to the OP's daughter?

OP - I think you are looking at this the wrong way. You have no reason to feel threatened by your daughter covering her head to visit a mosque. The act of covering her head will not mean you, your daughter or the school are endorsing the practice. What it does is provide a perfect springboard for discussion in which you get to put your views across; "how interesting, these people believe that women should cover their heads. We don;t believe that, do we? In fact I think X, Y and Z"

Covering her head in order to explore something new and foreign to her is a curiosity; interesting but not important. It's an anthropological thing, like not taking photographs of Maasai warriors in case you steal their soul - you probably don't believe photographs steal souls but you would still respect their wish not to be photographed.

Or you could even look at it as a practical step to get closer to what she is learning about, like tying her hair back in the science lab.

Explain to her that while you, and the majority of people, think men and women ar equal and shoud be able to dress equally, people who run mosques have different ideas.

I don't believe anybody on this thread would be agreeing with this if the situation were reversed. If a letter came home from school saying that they were going to visit some kind of institution and that only Muslim children or only Christian children or only Atheist children had to dress differently to everybody else, there would not be lots of people on the thread saying, oh it is fine that group X children are being treated differently - we should respect the institution's culture.

It is simply because it is women being treated differently that people think it is okay.

And it has nothing to do with hair tied back in a Science class - that is a health and safety issue. Schools couldn't teach Science fully without this rule. Schools could take children to a mosque without being sexist - they just need to choose a different mosque.

Well I agree particularly with this: 'It can be a short few steps between fear, intolerance and hatred... Exposing even young children to difference won't contaminate them.'

I think that by making a big deal out of this trip, or even not letting her go, it would send a message that mosques and Muslims are something to be avoided, that they are bad or scary or awful people. I very much agree with allhail as well, and this is the approach I hope to take when my DC is older.

I wouldn't send my sons to be shown that little girls have something that must be covered up, that they don't have. I do not agree with the ideology that girls and women are like precious jewelry that must be hidden away safely so that Bad Men don't touch. We are people.

DB, you are making some huge assumptions that the OP is going to behave as if Muslims are different and shouldn't be treated equally. What we factually know and don't have to make assumptions about is that the OP's daughter is being treated differently and unequally because she is female.