Help me explain to my friend why this is really wrong

[iMemoo]

A group of women in my town are organising an event to raise money for charity. They are holding a bikini car wash! So basically people (I suspect mainly men) are going to pay them to wash their car whilst they are dressed in skimpy bikinis. My friend is taking part in it. I am horrified by the whole thing. I can't believe that this group of woman are choosing to objectify themselves like this. There are a million things they could have done to raise money and yet they choose to do it by basically getting their tits out for the lads!! I have tried to explain why it is wrong to my friend but I'm just not getting through to her.

I know in my head what I think and why this is wrong but I just can't articulate it. How do I explain to my friend why this is so wrong. Please help me find the right words!

On a slightly different tangent, if you are on display like that, you'd better hope ALL of the woman alongside you have fantastic bodies and big tits and look like the type of women the type of man who will come to this will fancy..

Because the object of the exercise is to be looked at ,leered at and judged.

And she will be. Loudly probably by ugly,thickmen.

breast cancer do the moon walk , ok a bit more tasteful , but only a bit.
A decent bikinis hardly more revealing than the hot pants and shorts that will be seen on every high street today and at least their bra straps won't be showing, so they'll look a deal smarter.
The cast of calendar girls or hair spray get paid to take their clothes off and Maria sharapova is paid for those legs just as much as her tennis

I wonder if this is an age thing, I'm over 40 and don't have a problem with it. I suspect most teens and early 20's wouldn't given the way they dress. My dd's are a bit young to understand the issues.

Men don't do it too.

Those firemen aren't in their undies, they're fully clothed.

Just point her at that scene in .

Posted too soon...

Yeuch! And what HerBex said.

Firemen are seen as gorgeous & sexy, but that's not the point of them.

The point of wearing a bikini when not at the beach is to be appraised sexually.

isn't the 'debate' whether you agree with prostitution, or not? If it promotes the position of women in society?

Pan: No. It's about whether one person has the right to harangue and harass a friend for having a different opinion.

Wearing very little, getting wet and sudsy...at least that's what the anticpated lure is. No problem with women wearing bikinis, but pay and I'll let you gawp at me (but it's not at all tawdry as it's all in the name of charidee) is tosh. It is tawdry, however they dress it up.

However, you've said your piece and she has her own v different views. Let it be.

no SGB, she isn't harrassing or haranguing her, as I see it.

but we see things differently. You think it's ok. I don;t, and I suspect we won't meet on this.

Pan: Fine. It's fine to disagree. It's not fine to keep on and on banging away at a friend who doesn't agree with you. The OP can't 'get through' to her friend because her friend disagrees with her so the OP should leave it at that.

agreed.

Maybe the OP could try playing the Benny Hill theme tune to her friend. But I doubt that would have any effect either. I think she wants to do it, thinks it is fun, and likes the attention. That's why she called the OP "jealous". I agree with SCB, you can't change everyone's opinion, people will always disagree.

I agree with SCGB. You have said your bit-anything more will make her more anti. I never see any point in banging your head against a brick wall!

I agree that wearing bikinis in the street isn't, or shouldn't be, any different from wearing them at a beach or pool. But I'm troubled by the fact that women wearing bikinis is, in this instance, linked to making money. Do we really need yet more links between women revealing their bodies and commerce?

Having said that, I think you have to back off from your friend. She knows your opinion and your reasons but she doesn't agree. Surely you'll only piss her off if you carry on? If I were you I'd show my uneasiness about the event by not attending. If anyone asks if you're going or why you weren't there, explain. They also may not agree with you, but I think that's all you can do really.

No I don't think so HRH. Mr Pervy is obviously a creep, but it's still bloody uncomfortable to be on the end of creepy behaviour. It is horrible feeling exposed and vulnerable, even when rationally you know that the other person is a fuckwit and he has no right to make you feel so vulnerable and intimidated. But being rational about it and knowing how wrong this bastard is, doesn't stop you feeling very exposed when it happens to you. You can be surprised by quite how vulnerable you feel, even as you tell yourself that you have every right to wear what you like when you like, without being perved at by shits like this. And of course, that's the point of it - it's sexual bullying and even when you are really extremely well armed against it psychologically, it can be really very unpleasant and actually quite frightening. Of course it's wrong that men can do this to women. But they do. And I wonder if the OP's friend is fully aware of that and armed against it.

Whichever way you slice it it's degrading, inappropriate and sets us back.
I wouldn't want my children OR husband seeing women doing that.

Whichever way you slice it they can have free choice. I wouldn't do it but having voiced disapproval there is nothing else to do. I think that freedom of choice is far more important.

I am new tothe feminist board too. I had no idea it was so rigid and once a friend has disapproved the person is supposed to say 'yes mam-will do'!

There is only one point here. OP expressed disapproval and friend has ignored-end of.

(other than kidnap and hold hostage on the day!)

You win some, you lose some. Free choice is important.

I doubt what I am going to post will answer the OP's question but here is my tuppence worth.

When thinking about whether an activity/action is consistent with my feminist politics, I use the young woman/older woman/pregnant woman/man analogy.

In other words - do men do it/are men expected to do it/are men judged for doing or not doing it.

And, imagine the scene with very young women, older women or pregnant women.

Helps to take off the patriarchy blinkers and get some perspective.

And then think about it from a patriarchal perspective anew;

Would men pay to watch their elderly mother in laws wash their cars whilst scantily dressed? Would men pay to watch a group of pregnant women do the same (actually there are probably some sick fucks who would but I'm talking about normal men here)?

Or would the above be ridiculous, weird, demeaning?

So this activity is yuck because of its 'women get paid to be leered at' aspect, but it is also gross because it is an activity where only the body confident and 'attractive as dictated by patriarchy' are welcome to join in. Any other older fatter wrinklier less brainwashed jealous women can just fuck off and make the sandwiches or something whilst the deluded pretty ones are ogled admired and empowerfulized have fun.

Nice.