Silly question maybe - can a man be a feminist?

[biryani]

After a few glasses last night I got into a discussion with a male aqcuaintance about childcare etc. This man claims he's a feminist because he shares childcare etc with his wife, and has read Naomi Woolf and Andrea Dworkin. I said something like " you can't be a feminist because you're a man!", meaning that feminism arises out of a specifically female take on the world and that a man cannot experience this, being a man, and therefore cannot be a feminist as such although he may empathise and understand female issues.

now sober, I'm not sure. Who's right?

jesus!
well, daisy i'm not looking for a speacial big cookie nor do i think that my opinion would be more valid than anyone elses, i wonder why you would think it was. i do enjoy the debate ....guilty as charged you got me there.
i'm a builder i'm just less 'hairy-arsed' than my contemprories i encounter sexism on a daily basis, not to mention racism. do i pipe up every time i hear something sexist? no, i dont want to spend my whole life argueing and being outnumberd.
a guy how quit the building game recently because his wife earned twice what he did and they had a baby was rounly slated for this by everyone on the site, "not much of a man" was said alot, where do you start with attitudes like that? do you expect me to be the lone voice of reason in a sea of biased bigotry?

is there such a thing as a mysoginist forum one can post at?

So your feminism shows itself in silence (or laughing along) at sexism/misogyny in real life and only reveals itself when sitting at a computer (when you're not looking up porn)?

My DH would call himself a feminist. Why shouldn't a man be able to be a feminist?

thanx reality
nice to hear someone that agrees with me , doesnt happen very often!

dadof2ofthem Sun 26-Jun-11 11:11:26
"where do you start with attitudes like that? do you expect me to be the lone voice of reason in a sea of biased bigotry?"

Yes. Yes I do. Because what good are you doing the feminst movement otherwise?

It's absolutely zero help to feminists that dadof2 thinks sexism is wrong. On the other hand, it's a little step forward, a little push-back, a little bit of fucking support if dadof2 calls out his misogynist colleagues at work.

What do you want from this board? A load of virtual women telling you what a great guy you are for - gasp - not saying sexist things when you're on the building site? To go weak-kneed because you've swung by here to tell us that the pay gap is a bit of a shitter?

Guess what? You aint getting any of that from me.

You want the feminist badge? Then go and do some feminist work.

ByTheSea Sun 26-Jun-11 11:22:24
"My DH would call himself a feminist. Why shouldn't a man be able to be a feminist?"

Because calling yourself a feminist don't necessarily make it so. I like to call myself a world class athlete. Why shouldn't I? I've read a few internet sites on sprinting techniques.

A member of the opressing class does not get to say that identifies as a member of the opressed class unless he is actively working to address his own privilege and support the struggle of the oppressed class.

Your DH may well do this. In which case, of course he can identify as a pro-feminist man. If he just thinks that women probably shouldn't be raped then I would hotly dispute his claim to the label.

I agree with hatwoman right at the top.

I disagree with any statement of "you can't be a feminist if..." unless it end with something like ".... you think women are of less value than men"

In my book you are a feminist if:

1: you think that men and women should be equal (equally treated, valued, respected, given equal opportunities)
2: you think that this is not currently happening
3: you want it to happen

dadof2ofthem Sun 26-Jun-11 11:11:26
"i dont want to spend my whole life argueing and being outnumberd."

That's a fucking shame. Neither do I as it goes. But then, if I don't, neither I, or my daughter or future granddaughter will ever have anything approaching equality. So I'll take the fight, no matter how unpopular it makes me.

Don't you worry about it though, dadof2. Your life is pretty good, so there's no need for you to get your hands dirty. You can just tell me that I'm doing a good job from the sidelines if you like.

"In my book you are a feminist if:

1: you think that men and women should be equal (equally treated, valued, respected, given equal opportunities)
2: you think that this is not currently happening
3: you want it to happen"

That's how I see it too.

You don't get to claim to be anti-racist in 1950s Alabama, yet still merrily drink from the whites only fountain and accept it when people of colour give up their seats on busses for you. Even if in your head you think it's really really bad and the system should be changed and you'd be delighted if it did.

How is that being anti-racist? You don't have to be burning crosses to uphold a bigoted and unfair system.

Same applies to feminism. Men can reap the benefits of being the privileged class and still bang on sanctimoniously about how they would really like equality for women? Give me a break.

I think he wanted a mysogynist forum not to go on it and be mysogynist but to go over there and fight the good fight :)

I'm not sure about 'no. 3 you want to see it happen' - that's very passive. I'd want something more like 'you work to see it happen'.

I'm not saying everyone has to go on marches, of course.

I think being a feminist is about what you think, so all of my "rules" are thoughts not actions.

If someone does not work to make it happen then you could accuse them of not acting in accordance with their principles, but you couldn't accuse them of not being a feminist. Some feminists are lazy, or shy, or scared, or not sure what to do, just like everyone else.

dadof2
[on a intellectual level i believe i am a feminist......]
on a unitellectual level-so am i.you dont have to be intellectual to see the wrong that is done to women.

[........this however doesnt stop me from being attracted to women this is my sexuality.........i like women and im aroused by erotica]
what being intellectual or being a feminist?
yep-i like women aswell and im not aroused by erotica[im sure you mean porn]it makes me feel sick!
just because you are a man who likes women-dont use the fact that you are a man be a excuse for youre liking for porn.
its got nothing to do with youre liking for women[quite the contary].

[but i know many men who...................................nevr mind bare a concience on how theyre arousal might affect/exploit/abuse..........]
what?you mean like you!!

Reality
''Watching porn doesn't automatically bar you from the 'club'.'' - a man watching porn??? No, that's not a male feminist - that's a man using pornography who tells you he's a feminist.

I agree with the idea that men can be 'pro-feminist' but a cynic might suggest that dadof2ofthem is pro-getting attention from feminists on internet forums.

im a cynic!!

Me too, sparky

I am reminded of a lecturer I had at uni, Dr Right-on, who had long hair, quoted Dylan and taught feminist theory while having sexual relationships with undergraduate students. A new one each year. 'Yeah, good to see you, come into my office and we can talk about feminism. Or if you like, we could go and grab a drink and talk.' That's the kind of thing that makes you suspicious about male feminists...

And he's still working in the same department, now a Professor, promoted no doubt for his contribution to abusing his position of power, expoiting much younger and more vulnerable young women in order to have sex with woman who looke dup to him. Not for his crappy research anyway.

[nods at floyjoy]-yep.
see-this is what bothers me-a lot of men cant even see theyre own privallege and sometimes[i feel]its sort of making a mockery out of feminism!
can you see what im saying?