Mothers, fathers, children and the family heirarchy

[Ormirian]

Thread obliquely about a thread. Sorry.

But as I read more I got and then and finally downright .

I have always thought that having children was a joint project. Both parents have as much invested in the child, both care equally about the outcome. I always beleived that was a given. With good decent men anyway.

When children are small they come first. Always. Simple logistics demand it for a start. The parents gets what is left over in terms of energy, time and affection. In a solid relationship with similar attitudes that is absolutely fine because it's temporary and for a worthwhile goal.

I have heard about fathers being jealous when a new baby arrives. I can understand that I guess - mother's do tend to get wrapped up in newborns, exhausted and emotionally drained. However I always assumed that jealousy of a baby (who also happens to be their child) is something that would be regarded with embarrassment and shame. Something a man would fight against and certainly not mention seriously to his partner. If he was jealous of his own child he'd do his damndest to sort it out himself and not parade his ego in front of his partner and demand she massage it for him!

Have I been suckered by the myth of the New Man? Do most men really feel as if their infant children are 'in the way' and taking up too much of their partner's time? How can you be jealous of the affection your partner shows to your child and the time and energy she gives them? And what happened to supporting your wife/gf in what is a hard time for her too? When she needs your support and love? When she doesn't need more demands?

Oh and don't misquote me, it's the oldest trick in the book. I did NOT say "all men are aggressive "

I said my daughter is statistically more likely to be murdered if she lives with a man than if she lives alone. So am I. And you too.

That doesn't translate into "all men are aggressive" . It's a basic analysis of statistics. We are talking about men's aggregate behaviour here. Two women a week are murdered by their spouse in the U.K.

If you read my second post you would see that I corrected my mistake.

I bring up my DCs to think the world is a wonderful place, not that they are only safe with mother, or by themselves. Life is there to be lived, take risks, meet lots of different people, learn by mistakes be joyful -not be put of trying in case of 'what might happen'.

I would rather have my freedom and run the risk of being murdered, than stay fearfully at home mistrusting all strangers.

I refuse to be a victim and let anyone alter my behaviour. For that reason I sent my DSs into the gents toilets when 6 yrs, left them at home alone at 8yrs, let them boil a kettle, go on French exchange holiday, go camping with friends at 15yrs, catch a train to London etc. I shall assume that they are a good judge of character and hopefully they won't live with one of the many women who murder their partners.
I am certainly not going to scare them to death with the world is a terrible place-only trust mother! You really do hate men Sakura. Have you not a single good word?

I would rather have my freedom and run the risk of being murdered,than stay fearfully at home mistrusting all strangers.

If you were born a man, you could have both! YOu could have freedom and a very unlikely chance of being murdered.

Personally, I want my daughter to have freedom. Which is why I will be advising her to live alone or with her friends. Don't let a man trap you into the cage that is marriage, I will say (well maybe not in so many words)

Oh and as I have been pointing out, a woman is more likely to be murdered in her home ... by her husband so out on the streets is actually the safest place for a women.

Telling your daughter to stay home will not keep her safe. QUITE THE OPPOSITE if there is a man in her life.

I'm not making this up. HArd evidence shows that a woman is more likely to be murdered in her own home, by a man she is in a relationship with

Nah, I don't hate men, but I think they have too much power.. and they are incapable of using it correctly. Men are not born to be leaders.. history has proven this.

I refuse to even read any more!
Do you not know that, statistically, the highest risk group for being attacked when out in the evening is young men?
I have looked it up. Men commit more crimes than women. Men are more likely to be victims of violent crime than women. Men and women aged 16-24 are most at risk-more than double men victims than women. Domestic violence is the only category where the risks to women are higher than men. Men however are victims of domestic violence. Risks to men of stranger violence are 4 times higher than to women.

I think that she is very unlikely to listen to you. If my mother was continually spouting such mistrust and fear I would leave home asp and ignore. (unless I knew it was due to horrific personal experience, in which case I would be more understanding, but still not know why it needed to apply to me.)

Anyway having heard that men are entirely free from any worry of attack or murder-I will hide the thread-the only way to keep my promise, made some time ago, of leaving it.

We cross posted-I'm glad that you cleared that up- in the home-I agree with that-but a hell of a lot of women are perfectly safe at home.

"Anyway having heard that men are entirely free from any worry of attack or murder"

No-one has said this though. I don't get it?

If you were born a man, you could have both! YOu could have freedom and a very unlikely chance of being murdered

I wrote my reply before Sakura amended her statement-so it is hardly fair to put it-she then changed it to in the home, which I agreed with.

Sakura doesn't need me to defend her corner but as I read it that's what she was saying all along, that women are more at risk of violence in the home than out on the streets.

Not in the post that I was replying to. I wasn't replying to anything ,except that one statement that I put in bold. I then agreed to her amendment (but not her way of dealing with it).

"Do you not know that, statistically, the highest risk group for being attacked when out in the evening is young men?"

Yes of course I know that. THat's the point I'm arguing
Men are at risk of attack from other men (not women BTW)

WOmen, on the other hand, are more at risk of attack in their own homes.
(again by men, not women)

So women are safer on the streets, and men are safer in their own homes.

So it's silly to do what you implied I would do and tell your daughter that she shouldn't go out on the streets at night and she should stay at home ) because I know my daughter would be safer on the streets than at home with a man

unless she lived alone, of course, then she would be safer at home :)

I should just enjoy living-life is a risk and an adventure-don't let fear hold you back.
It really is my last post-promise

exotic I think you're going to have to agree to disagree with everyone else on this thread.

You have not taken discussed any of the evidence presented by other posters, nor have you provided any empirical evidence or indeed any form of evidence to support your opinions (other than those of your own personal experience, which are hardly representative of the norm).

Where you have been provided with irrefutable evidence your response has been to either repeat yourself over and over or to create straw arguments.

Who on earth said we were letting fear of men hold us back from living our lives? Don't lay that comment at Sakura's feet. She's equipping her DD with the skills and knowledge that means her DD won't have to live a life ruled by fear.

I sincerely hope that none of your female relatives are ever let down by a man because it is clear that you will hold them responsible for it and offer no sympathy whatsoever.

One of the reasons that young men are more likely to be attacked in the evenings, is because they are more likely to be out and about either alone or in an aggressive group. Women are actually less likely to be on the street and so they are naturally, less likely to be attacked. They tend to get a taxi, where a man will walk or use public transport. When they are in groups, lots of men get into fights with other men and that is factored into the fgures, Where women get attacked, it isn't because they've been threatening attack themselves. So I think you need to be a bit more aware of the story behind the figures.

Also, AFAIK, when they count "violent crimes" they miss out rape and sexual assault. For some reason, they don't categorise them as violent crime. So if you put those crimes back in, the figures look a little different.

I also think people should be aware of the fact that the UK government has made it law for any man who "feels like a woman" to have the M scrapped and changed to an F (meaning female) on his birth certificate... even if he still has his penis.

Seeing as a lot of trans women commit violent crimes (and I actually thinks this is connected to their general fragility and state of madness and need for psychological help) what this means is that their crime will be logged on police records as being a woman who committed it. They will be put in a woman's prison and the crime statistics will show that females are committing more crimes. When actually it's just men in dresses.

I make the point because some people like exoticfruits are very keen to point out that "women commit crimes too" and it's very aggravating when actually men's crimes are being counted as women's

'A lot of trans women commit violent crimes'

I didn't know that. Is that a well known fact?

there was a case of a trans woman (who still had his penis) mudering his boyfriend attempting rape of a woman.

How many women ( I mean real women) do you know who have attempted to rape a woman with their penis?

And considering there aren't really that many trans women out there (compared to women, who are 50% of the population) why are there so many of them in the news for committing violent crimes? It tells me that a trans woman is statistically more likely to commit a crime than a woman. Just like a man, basically. Because a trans woman is a man. Duh

My point is that a trans woman is as likely to commit a violent crime as your average man.

IN other words, the chance is much greater than a real woman.

And yet their crimes go down as women's crimes and it pisses me off

'Duh'

Is that aimed at my question?

I thought we were allowed to challenge views on here.

Or is it only Exocticfruits who gets challenged?

Or is it only Exocticfruits who gets challenged?

It certainly is!

Mine point is that life is for living, assessing risk and taking it -or you would stay at home, lonely and suspicious. Humans need close relationships to function, I am not talking physical-I mean emotional. It is possible to have a deep emotional relationship with a man, they are not an alien species-they are just people. I haven't chosen to live with a man for life for a baby and a meal ticket! I can do both by myself, I have chosen it because I love him.(I expect that this will be put down to conditioning by the patriarchy!-in which case I don't care as it is far preferable to the alternatives spouted on here)

Even the point that men get attacked in the evening because they are out and women stay at home is rubbish. Go to any university town and both sexes will be out at night-and surprise,surprise, they will be out together in groups of friends. My DSs have girls who are friends, they stay the night with them-quite platonically.

I can't see that I have said anything much to complain about, other than I have not been sympathetic enough to domestic violence.

Sakura's last posts about transsexuals are sheer paranoia, and yet no one will say so and suggest counselling.

I can only think that I am stupid to come on this thread and the only reason that I don't get backup is that most people keep off it-they have perfectly happy relationships with men and can't be bothered.

Unfortunately I am not so sensible and have broken my promise.

stoptheclocks
Sorry duh was a bit harsh.. No, the people who get challenged on the feminist topic are those who insist on bringing mainstream views here... as if we haven't heard them before. a million times. every time we turn on the T.V or read a book or a paper.

Feminism is about challengin the mainstream opinion that exoticfruits is espousing.

Prince, I find it more bizzarre that exotic is fixated on me telling my daughter to stay at home... when I've repeatedly said that statistically she is safer on the streets than at home./

My daughter (and I) are safer walking on the streets at night than living with a man. Hard facts bear this out.

So why do you keep going on about staying at home suspicious? There is no need to be "suspicious" about men murdering their wives, that's a fact. It happens twice a week in the U.K alone.

My daughter is safer living alone or walking the streets than getting married, that's all I'm saying.