Mothers, fathers, children and the family heirarchy

[Ormirian]

Thread obliquely about a thread. Sorry.

But as I read more I got and then and finally downright .

I have always thought that having children was a joint project. Both parents have as much invested in the child, both care equally about the outcome. I always beleived that was a given. With good decent men anyway.

When children are small they come first. Always. Simple logistics demand it for a start. The parents gets what is left over in terms of energy, time and affection. In a solid relationship with similar attitudes that is absolutely fine because it's temporary and for a worthwhile goal.

I have heard about fathers being jealous when a new baby arrives. I can understand that I guess - mother's do tend to get wrapped up in newborns, exhausted and emotionally drained. However I always assumed that jealousy of a baby (who also happens to be their child) is something that would be regarded with embarrassment and shame. Something a man would fight against and certainly not mention seriously to his partner. If he was jealous of his own child he'd do his damndest to sort it out himself and not parade his ego in front of his partner and demand she massage it for him!

Have I been suckered by the myth of the New Man? Do most men really feel as if their infant children are 'in the way' and taking up too much of their partner's time? How can you be jealous of the affection your partner shows to your child and the time and energy she gives them? And what happened to supporting your wife/gf in what is a hard time for her too? When she needs your support and love? When she doesn't need more demands?

[exoticfruits]

Anyone would think you had to marry a man, live with a man or even have a man friend! You do have choice.
It makes sense to get to know him for a longish period, after the first flush of romance has worn off and he is no longer on 'best behaviour'. See him with his family, how does he react to DCs, does he help his mother if he goes around there? Does he have time for an aging grandparent? What has he told you about his childhood? Does he know how to even use a hoover?
If he is a charming party animal who can't even boil himself an egg let alone cook a lasagne-at least you know what you are getting!

If this is all too sensible or prosaic for you ,then you can't be too surprised is what you see isn't what you get and you can't mould him into the sort of father you want for your DC.

[sunshineandbooks]

Thing is exotic, if were all as clever as you with such superior judgment, I think possibly only 20% of the country would be in relationships and having children. Though I suspect you might consider that the 'right' 20%.

[exoticfruits]

They would be the sensible ones and the DCs would have a good start in life. You have to admit -rightly or wrongly-that people enter into relationships that on hindsight they wouldn't. I nearly did it-3 days and agreed to marry someone!! Luckily he wasn't free and by the time he was, the novely had worn off. He was lovely -but not-I imagine to live with. I was saved and am very greatful!

[exoticfruits]

sorry grateful

[sunshineandbooks]

So I was right then.

[exoticfruits]

If we lived our life backwards it would be so much simpler!
I can't say that many women are much interested in the thread-if you bear in mind that this has taken 12 days to get just over 300 posts-mainly kept alive by me upsetting people-and a thread about a friend's DH telling off a 6 yr old got over 700 in 3 days!

You will be pleased to know that I won't be able to get on line for a few days (sighs of relief all round ) -by which time it will have fizzled out with lack of fuel to the fire .

I still think start with DCs-at least it gets to the next generation-if you have a lost cause in your DH. People don't change and can't be forced to change.

[HerBeX]

"You are assuming that all women have high standards."

LOL

No, no I'm not

You're doing it again

[exoticfruits]

You are OK HerBex I am signing over and out. I find it an interesting subject-I'm surprised that it hasn't attracted more posters. Bye.

[blackcurrants]

I keep coming back to this thread to goggle in disbelief. exotic you seriously seem to believe that everything is down to an individual choice, and if everyone was as clever as you, then no one would be in a shitty marriage.

As opposed to even noticing that, as PH pointed out, there are lots of men who are doing ALL the things you say they should do in the honeymoon period - cleaning up, sharing jobs, having the same kind of standards - and THEN treat their partners like shit once babies come along.

It's not that the women 'should have known better' - how could then when THE MEN CHANGE ? I know you're clever and brilliant but really, are you able to see into the future ? cos that would be handy.


Further more it's not the women's fault that the men in their lives start to treat them like shit. It's the MEN's fault. The clue is in the grammar.

ARGH why am I even here? It's like talking to a brick wall. That's why no one is posting, btw, exotic - it's because you're not listening or engaging, so there's not actually a discussion happening. People make suggestions or air their thoughts which could potentially develop the discussion, and you say "no, no, if women were just less silly and more sensible like me this problem wouldn't exist, it's all women's fault because I said so."

How can you interact with an attitude like that? The "lalalalaa I can't hear you, no sexism here" school of thought is pretty much a debate killer.

[luvvinlife]

Is Sakura a wind up ?

I've seldom read such inane pathetic bilge