Rape apologists on MN

[IdeopathicPruritusAni]

Why are their comments allowed to stand? I don't feel I can be part of a community that displays such material, usually avoid threads (triggery triggery) about sexual violence so am not sure whether it is the norm for posters to show up (on support threads, not hypothetical debates) simply to spout vile, distressing views. I saw lots of anti-feminist posts yesterday that were comedic either intentionally or otherwise but that's a very different situation from a poster looking for support and information following an assault - whether completed or not.

I feel, vicariously, horribly let down by MN. Any other sort of hate speech would surely be deleted?

I think some women hold those views as a way of making themselves feel better, I'm sure we've all come across women who are unsympathetic to victims, I think they comfot themselves with 'well I don't act like those women' 'it won't happen to me'

Has there been any sort of clarification from MN as to whether they will or will not promote the continued peddling of these myths on support threads?

Tell me if I am being ridiculous. For all I know it is normal and acceptable, but I think that's the first time I have knowingly ventured on to such a thread (have been on disclosure by stealth threads and scarpered, my delicate sensibilities and all that) and I feel physically sick.

I can't believe I'm having to argue on that thread that the clothes you wear do not mean you want to be raped. Or that if you lie in bed with a man he basically has automatic rights.

I feel sick, but I can't just stop posting or I will feel guilty.

Sorry for the delay, dittany in answering your question.

This BBC report summarises
this study carried out by the Havens centres in London.

And here's a report suggesting the same situation in Ireland, for example.

But having said that, this study suggested the opposite and this CIF article took a closer look at the situation and came to the conclusion it wasn't as clear cut as all that...

So I think my assertion above was a bit of a misconception of my own .

Apologies.

Thanks for making me check it more thoroughly!

am I being ridiculous?

I think some women are rape apologists because they have been raped in a similar circumstance and, mentally, they find it comforting to think "that wasn't really rape". Or for women who have never been raped they think "well, I would never be that stupid, wear a mini-skirt or be out alone at 3am so I will never be raped".

Anyway, I do think the Relationship threads are supposed to be supportive and that thread wasn't.

That thread was awful, and I knew which one you were referring to even before your link, IPA.

It might just be me, but I have noticed that the level of support the Rape Apologists are getting on threads such as these is diminishing. The number of people supporting the OP and rebuffing the bullshit seems to be increasing.

It is only a few months ago where the supporters would have been drowned out by the dickheads Apologists. This time, it felt like there were far more people willing to stand up and say that it wasn't right.

Maybe our feminist principles subliminal brainwashing techniques are rubbing off? Or perhaps I'm just far too optimistic?!

There does seem to be a lot more traffic 'round these parts lately.....

And Mitchie, you are not being ridiculous at all.

It is not fair for a support thread to turn into yet another shit debate. Has anyone actually approached MNHQ about this issue?

Thanks UmYeah. I have contacted MNHQ but not heard anything yet. Hopefully when they have a spare minute they will say Something.

Ugh. Just come back from work and read the rest of that thread.

I was horribly conflicted last night between fanning the flames and not letting the comments stand without challenge. I went for the latter because I though that was the most supportive option. What can you do?

It has just occurred to me that sending OPs like maristrella (because sadly she won't be the last) a PM inviting them to start a thread here or in OTBT. Because fuckwits like that don't tend to venture anywhere near the two sections. I do think that at least one of those posters - b e a u t i f u l s w a n - was alerted on an M R A batphone or was WW. I fail to believe that a genuine long time lurker would be inspired to jump in to tell a rape victim they weren't really raped. And I suspect that a poster who regularly commented on rape threads on this board was on there too.

I only reported Wottywot's offensive post of rape top trumps and it has been deleted, I believe. I am inclined to think that the other comments should stand so that they can be refuted, hard though it must be for the OP. But they are the beliefs of vast swathes of the population, as we all know, and perhaps the knowledge that there are plenty of us out there that don't think like that might help. Hope so.

UnYeah, yes I think that's true. The thread in question was bad, though.

There are some unbeleivable thickos on that thread. I can't work out if they are deluded women or M R As. Depressing anyway.

Surely that thread wont last much longer? I feel so sorry for the OP, when she comes home and reads all that she will think she was better off not posting. :(

I reported the poster who was causing all the hassle ages ago... I guess no one is bothered that she's causing un-needed distress to an attempted rape victim...

As long as the fuckwits aren't offended!

Disappointed not to have had a response either explaining why mn are happy to display those comments on their boards or, preferably, how they plan to tackle the problem. Perhaps it isn't a problem, perhaps it's all in my head.

there's now a dv apologist on the Natalie Cassidy thread

On some level I think they (the comments by the rape apologists) need to stand. They are horrible views, but in the end, they & the proceeding comments may help someone, just one poster see that it isn't 'normal' or part of a relationship.

I don't think the posters believe they are/want to be rape apologists, I feel that they are living through/have lived through something similar & it helps them not to believe it is rape/attempted rape as that will open too many wounds & lead to them having to do something about it.

They may not want to do anything about it, for whatever reason, so it works for them to explain it as 'that is what happens when I share his bed' or 'I had sex with him last night, so he is entitled to it tonight' ít is my marital duty' and on and on.

It serves them better not to question it. So it is good that we do, that people here do & that people like the op on that thread & others like her, who know it isn't right, can see it being challenged.

The only problem with that, different, is that when those posters tell the OP that what she experienced wasn't attempted rape, they're also telling me - and countless others who were raped in not dissimilar circumstances - that we weren't raped. I'm pretty much used to it now and can usually find the strength to argue the toss for the sake of the hypothetical About To Be Enlightened Poster. But not always.

It's not a no-harm strategy, is what I'm saying. These days I'm hormonal and easily upset and vulnerable, and I had to hide that thread after an interchange with BS because of it, and a day later I'm still having arguments in my head - how the fuck DARE you tell me that women in that circumstance aren't experiencing a rape attempt, how the fuck DARE you be so arrogant as to think that you know better than I do about what happened to me...

Yes, it's good that it's challenged. I make an effort to be supportive and helpful in the Relationships forum because (as SGB has said many times) society tells women over and over to shut up and put up and there has to be a counter-balance.

But let's not pretend that it's no harm no foul, you know?

THere will always be some women like that, I fear - I know it's different but I had a big problem at work some years ago, sexual harassment followed by death threats that no one took remotely seriously (until I involved the police) - and the head of our unit was a female doctor who basically told me and the 18yo girl who was also at the butt of his unwanted attentions that we should just suck it up because she had had to put up with much worse when she was training. Well bloody good for her. She might have done; but that's no reason at all to deny the distress and stress that his ongoing vileness was causing us in the workplace - but she seemed to think it was.

And perhaps that is why some of these people react the same way - as has been said already - "oh what happened to me/my friend/someone I read about in the paper was MUCH worse so your experience is completely unimportant, go away and stop whining about it". So fucking ignorant.

Feel quite uncomfortable here now it's apparent that the harm caused by these comments hasn't been so much as airily brushed off by mnhq, far less addressed in a meaningful way. I don't want to infer anything from their silence, they could be very busy, but it's tempting to conclude that it's not important to them.

I was going to buy the book today, however not sure I not want to support a website for women that can be so flippant when it comes to the subject of rape and attempted rape!

Brilliant post, Tortiose.

That is exactly how I feel when I see threads like that, and why most of the time I am too much of a coward to participate.

It's sad, as you don't really know how many women their views are effecting. It is likely that there are many women lurking on that thread (like me) who feel just as Tortoise described above.

Oh, it has been airily brushed off. All better now.