My teenage dd and the clothes she wants to wear...help me out please

[AnyFucker]

This is a kind of follow-up from the "what you wear might make men want to rape you" argument on another thread

Of course, I am a fully card-carrying member of "women should wear what they like and not have to suffer unwelcome attention" group

But here is my dilemma..

My dd is 15. She has big breasts for her frame. She likes to wear low cut, tight vest tops which I really have to bit my tongue about as her boobs are very much on display. She also wants to wear these tiny little strapless playsuit thingies that have to be worn without a bra. It looks like at any moment she is going to fall out of the one she insisted on buying (with her own, earned money from a PT job)

Do I pull my parental muscle and ban the wearing of such items bearing in mind she is living in my house, under my care. She is 15 and fairly streetwise but wouldn't cope with any serious sexual predation (of course). As part of her job, she was subjected to some unwelcome attention from an older bloke and she absolutely freaked out.

But still she wants to wear these clothes, and I know (as much as I rail against it, intellectually) that it isn't right.

I know this post is absolutely chockfull of hypocrisy and stupidity, btw, but am in a right old muddle.

What do I say to her, without

1. knocking her confidence

2. banning said clothes outright (we shouldn't have to do that, should we ? should we ???)

Am I taking the concept of wearing what you like and Fuck the Patriarchy too far and overthinking this ? Or by letting her wear relatively revealing clothes, am I failing in my duty as her mother ?

Now be aware these are perfectly ordinary clothes you can buy all over the high street, that thousands of other teenagers are wearing too. That is why she wants them, of course. Nothing she wears is at all overtly sexy, it's just how it looks to me, IYSWIM. I see my DH wincing sometimes too, and he is very feminist-minded. I guess he is mindreading others

Help me sort this out please. < sob >

she takes after t'other side of the family

It's difficult, isn't it? So far, dd1(15) dresses quite modestly. But if I suggested what she should wear, she would smile, say "Yeah yeah" and roundly ignore.

A poster was asking for suggestions on an outfit for her 15 year old the other day, and I had to ignore the thread, because I knew it meant diddly squat what a bunch of middle-aged harridans might spend an hour googling

precisely, BOF

although she nicks all my bloody shoes...

Doesn't every generation do this to their children?

I'm sure your mothers probably said the same sort of stuff.

yes of course, DYE

but this is me and I dinnae like it

Me and dd are exactly the same size, we wear each others stuff.

I know that sounds deeply sad doesn't it

My advice (which may not be worth that much as I have a 6 year old DS and no DDs) is that you enrol her for some sort of self defence class. The good ones teach you how to read situations as well as how to kick a rapist in the cock.

But I also agree with the poster who said that it's not anti-feminist to be anxious about your 15-year-old not having the maturity to handle the attention she may get. Sympathies to you.

Mind you, I offered to lend dd1 a pair of sky-scraping platforms for a party she was going to, and she had fun trying them on and marvelling at how they transformed her into a five foot nine Amazonian who could pat me on the head. But then she handed them back and told me she didn't fancy breaking her bloody ankle

All this fades into the background however compared to the knowledge that dd will be applying for the bloody army when she is 17. That thought keeps me awake at noght

DD can't wear high heels, thank god, so they are safe.

I don't think it is a fair swap, I wore her £6 Primark old-lady lace ups, she nicked my NEW new balance trainers to play cricket in the rain

the sympathy is nice, even after I posted my post-argument wound-up OP which makes not much sense at all actually

although I knew people would "get it" on here

am calm now

am researching dungarees on the Top Shop website

we have same size feet (ish)

that is it, thankfully

but she also nicks my bags, brollies, socks, make up etc etc etc

Just skimmed through a few posts, but I'm marking my place as I know I'll be having the same worries in future years...

Was going to suggest the same as ongak. Also, though I broadly support women's right to dress as they please, I also personally subscribe to the 'less is more' approach to dressing. When anybody dresses in an overtly sexy/ sexual way, people generally react to their body, not their brains. So I would want to convey this to my DD - and would discuss this with her as well, perhaps looking through magazines, etc, at pictures of women and men and chatting through the impressions their styles of dress give.

Then, I guess, ultimately, I'd hope some of my wisdom was getting through and leave her to make her own mistakes decisions. I'd kind of hope that even if she decided to disregard my views, she'd see through experience that perhaps her old ma is not such a washed-up old hasbeen after all...

But as a postscript, if she went out dressed sexily I'd have a chat with her after the event and see how it went.

On a different note entirely, DD (aged 13) has been on an RE visit to a Sikh gurdwara today. They were told to wear headscarves and black trousers or woolly tights.
I said she could wear some thinnish opaque tights, but apparently they had to be thick woolly ones so that 'the pants don't show through when we're sitting on the floor.'
I did wonder what kind of man would find himself irresistibly tempted by a 13 yo girl.
I have the cleavage-showing stage to look forward to, clearly.
Although, as one blessed in that area, I have to say that I spent most of my adolescence trying to camouflage them - it has to be an advancement that young girls are no longer conscious of themselves to that degree, but I guess lines have to be drawn somewhere, somehow. It's a question of how to do so without making them feel they should be hiding themselves away.

One thing I've found helpful is watching "Snog, Marry, Avoid" together and chatting. I'm aware that this doesn't sound especially feminist .

Oh Maryz that is awful

Maryz

DD never wears any make up, she has never got into it (doesn't need it, with that skin and eyes ). Which means my precious make up bag is safe.

Not so every pair of my socks, bras, tights, underwear, hairspray, jewellery, bags, coats. Nothing is safe.

I think years of feminist ranting has rubbed off. Was watching the only was is Essex, she was saying 'why do all those women put up with such twat men?'

I remember the poor girls at school who developed boobs at a young age, and the hideous attention they got.

I didn't hit puberty til I was 15, was a 6 foot rake. Then in 3 months developoed boobs and hips, it was horrible to have to learn to deal with it, and realise that men were looking at you for one thing, and having to learn how to run the gauntlet passed building sites, parked cars, groups of blokes outside pubs etc. That is a horrible lesson that every girl learns at some point.

Oh, Maryz! for you and your DD.

It must be tough though, because almost all teenage girls want to be fashionable, and most of them probably aren't even aware that their clothes might be seen as anything else apart from that, even when the clothes themselves are overtly sexy and giving every passing ogling bloke an eyeful he doesn't deserve.

that is it

she still doesn't get that

unfortunately, I feel she will have to undergo some unpleasant experiences before she does get it

I can't protect her from that completely, can I ? < strokes machete lovingly >

you are wrong about the teenage boys though Dittany, the ones I know through dd spend even more time and money on their appearance (especially hair and clothes) than the girls do

why does that not seem so concerning though ?

I understand about teenagers wanting to conform, and even to want to attract the opposite sex

somehow you don't often see middle aged women feeling entitled to grope and otherwsie harass teenage boys in the street though, do you ?