Ways the TV series 'Friends' was anti-feminist

[darleneoconnor]

comes from another thread

-There are lots of references to porn, which totally normalises it

• The women are unhealthily skinny
• The 'fat Monica' running joke
• Joey's womanising
• Phoebe being used as a womb for hire
• Monica was riddiculed for dating someone 7 years younger than her but it was ok for Ross to date someone 10 years younger then him
• All the girls' desire to get married (especially Monica's bridzillaness), as opposed to the boys
• the anti-single mother rant Monica had at her wedding
• Rachel's birth was very medicalised and disempowering (but in context of USA healthcare system I suppose)
• Chandler having to be 'taught' how to have a relationship
• Monicas getting slagged off for having 'lots' of lovers
• In the episode where Rachel, Phoebe and Joey make an issue of earning less than the others no-one mentions the gender split
• They do quite gender-specific jobs, Monica/cooking, Joey/acting (which is 2/3 male), Ross/Paleontologist, Phoebe/massuese, Rachel/waitress/fashion buyer, Chandler/IT(?)
• they get a stripper for a stag do then glamourise it by her saying how well she is paid
• Ross's homophobia and his lack of equal parenting of his child
• Monica's obsession with cleaning
• the rich Monica and Chandler adopting the babies of someone too poor to keep them herself
• Chandler pretending to watch tv so he doesn't have to do his fair share of the thanksgiving cooking
• The football game where Rachel is a 'useless' girl, Phoebe flashes her breasts to win a point and Monica is ridiculed for being as competitive as the boys

I'm sure there's more...

Joey is clearly shown never to know anything! Why would he know that?

Joey used to be insightful, just a bit shallow. He must have had a bang on the head at some point because later series showed him as idiotic. By the end all the characters were caricatures really.

That's why it's clever. EVEN Joey knows what all the watchers know.

Joeys naivety is used as a plot device like a Greek chorus all the way through the series.

Darlene O'Queenofthefeministworldandbeyond

You say that it is difficult to have a debate when you have to wait two days for a response. I have to say that I find it difficult to have a debate when I am told that I am not allowed to have a debate and 'It is', presumbly because Oh great and wonderful one say so.

sorry I meant to type, that 'you oh great and wonderful one say so'. But you probably knew that already because you're always right and you know everything. Humble apologies your majesty

netto- you made an extremely anti-feminist argument, and as a feminist who explicitly started a feminist thread on a feminst topic to discuss with other feminists I believe I was right to be pissed off with you. it's not like I didn't give a warning.

why dont some of you start a 'why friends isn't anti-feminist' thread instead of derailing this one?

Swiper that it is my point exactly re the cleaning, we are shown are variety of women, some obsessed with cleaning, some not so why would this lead us to believe that all women are obsessed with cleaning.

Same re competitiveness. Whatever her majesty says imo the only two characters shown to be obsessively competitive are Ross and Monica. This doesn't give out a feminist message I don't think, I don't see how it can.

there is a difference between having different opinions (something I have welcomed) and not wanting threads derailed by anti-feminists

My memory isn't very good - do we know anything about any of the men's attitude to cleaning?

I dont think friends is either anti or pro feminist - that's too black and White.

It simply reflects current western society, which is bound to be misogynist. As most multi media art forms do.

Are you the same person who referred to having children of the same sex as having "all the same set" btw? And who expressed sadness for people who don't have the full set?

Plenty about the mens attitude, Joey licks spoons and is messy - chandler tidies up, Ross is very clean and tidy.

Your majesty I'm not an anti-feminist. I tried to engage with your issues by giving my perspective on them as I had a different opinion on them. What did you want me (and others) to do, say 'Yes Queen Darlene, of course your Majesty, whatever you say' and kiss your feet?

I'm watching Friends at the moment.

Ross is doing a fake English accent, Monica is doing a fake Scottish accent and Rachel is doing a fake Indian accent.

They are clearly being racist and xenophobic.

Exactly Laurie, there may be aspects of 'Friends' that are anti-feminist and there may be some that are feminist. It isn't as simple as being one or the other. And again re the cleaning, we are being shown a variety of attitudes to cleaning. So we would we assume that all men/women are the same?

This makes me think about Frasier (which I loved) in a different light too. All the female characters were complete caricatures.

Didyouever I would sue E4 immediately

Theres also an episode where Joey forgets to pick his Grandma up from somewhere, blantant ageisim

Some of the feminist 'examples' are more convincing than others. Is that a crime?

Having a woman being the 1 out of 6 who has a cleaning obsession is pandering to a stereotype and that is a feminist issue. Look at the threads on here where DPs expect their partners do do all the housework because it is women's work

Monica's competitiveness is painted more negatively than Ross's. eg she is the one who swims out to the lake to get the geller cup, she annoys the boys by beating them at fuzball (they say they dont like playing with her because of this), in the one with the ball everyone sighs at Monica when she doesnt want to stop the game, there was a story that Monica once threw somthing at a pictionary game because she was so frustrated at not winning, I could go on..

No its not a crime your Majesty, but neither is any one of us commonors having an opinion. I do understand your points but I would have more respect for them if you hadn't told me that I wasn't allowed to dare to disagree with you.

Got a bit bored with the bickering, but I have to say that I am very impressed with the in-depth knowledge of the show being displayed. I know I've watched all of the episodes, many of them more than once and only recently, but I clearly have the retention part of my brain switched off.

Kudos.

Monica IS simply more competitive than Ross. Probably as an extreme reaction to Ross being the favoured child.

Him being favoured is ridiculed and held to account many times, it explains monica's personality.

I look at all series from a psychological perspective, theres a hilarious very knowing line when Phoebe dates a psychiatrist Roger and he rants about the co dependent group dynamic. Big nipples cups, define me, define me. Etc et

You are right AyeRobot I probably should stop arguing with her Majesty and leave her be. I think shes already been reported to MN for her rudeness and lack of understanding of the termdiscussion. And ditto v impressed with the Friends knowledge

It's an excellent series to critique, very well drawn characters, lots of info.