Ways the TV series 'Friends' was anti-feminist

[darleneoconnor]

comes from another thread

-There are lots of references to porn, which totally normalises it

• The women are unhealthily skinny
• The 'fat Monica' running joke
• Joey's womanising
• Phoebe being used as a womb for hire
• Monica was riddiculed for dating someone 7 years younger than her but it was ok for Ross to date someone 10 years younger then him
• All the girls' desire to get married (especially Monica's bridzillaness), as opposed to the boys
• the anti-single mother rant Monica had at her wedding
• Rachel's birth was very medicalised and disempowering (but in context of USA healthcare system I suppose)
• Chandler having to be 'taught' how to have a relationship
• Monicas getting slagged off for having 'lots' of lovers
• In the episode where Rachel, Phoebe and Joey make an issue of earning less than the others no-one mentions the gender split
• They do quite gender-specific jobs, Monica/cooking, Joey/acting (which is 2/3 male), Ross/Paleontologist, Phoebe/massuese, Rachel/waitress/fashion buyer, Chandler/IT(?)
• they get a stripper for a stag do then glamourise it by her saying how well she is paid
• Ross's homophobia and his lack of equal parenting of his child
• Monica's obsession with cleaning
• the rich Monica and Chandler adopting the babies of someone too poor to keep them herself
• Chandler pretending to watch tv so he doesn't have to do his fair share of the thanksgiving cooking
• The football game where Rachel is a 'useless' girl, Phoebe flashes her breasts to win a point and Monica is ridiculed for being as competitive as the boys

I'm sure there's more...

I love that episode Laurie. I'm sure theres something anri-feminist in the terms 'nipples' and 'cups' though

You cannot expect to have a thread with only opinions on that you want to hear. That's just ridiculous. The point of a discussion forum is for people to exchange opinions and to learn from each other - and there are shades of gray as in all aspects of life. You seriously think there should be separate threads for separate opinions?

Shutting down debate is censorship - which is what you are accusing others of.

Sorry but this is a bug bear of mine. There was a time years ago when people on MN went through a phase of saying 'I think it's time everyone stopped posting on this thread now' - it used to annoy me no end and this is no different imo!!

There is one very good thing about friends - first series to quickly pay all co-stars the same salary.

That did quite a bit for women in popular series.

Also, the female co stars have ended up being more
Materially successful than the men.

For noobs do bear in mind that MN feminist forum should be treated exactly the same way as posting on any other fundamentalist religious or political forum. If you disagree with with the central tenet of why the forum exists your views are not welcome. Debate is only accepted within narrow proscribed boundaries. The same restrictions that apply to most "patriarchal" societies will be reflected here. It is the nature of the world (if only they had the self awareness to see it here). This is why I love it so much, it teaches hubris.

Electra exactly right and I was willing to learn from Darlene and others on this thread but then I was effectively told by Darlene to leave.

Darlene apologies if I have offended you in some way, but everyone is entitled to an opinion on here and I was just giving mine. I was willing to learn and engage with others views but unfortunately your attitude and response prevented me.

I will stop referring to you as your Majesty now. But perhaps you should take a leaf out of the real Queen's book and try to be a bit more polite and agreeable in future

This week on when good threads go bad....

If people want to do that they should stick to emailing each other or setting up private 'invitation only' groups. MN is quite a 'mainstream' forum and debate is to be expected here.

Ihavewellies- this thread was titled 'ways friends is anti-feminist' not 'is friends anti-feminist', you seemed to miss that crucial difference. I do believe that you are just blissfully unaware of the derailing that goes on within this topic. it has meant that us feminists have had to get very defensive but dont blame us blam the anti-feminists that raid us. I already gave an example of a thread and there are dozens more like it.

BTW I responded to your points but you haven't responded back. If you want a discussion then have one.

The episode with the psychiatrist is excellent as are a lot of the first 3 series. There is some feminism in there. Unfortunately it is obliterated by the end.

It isn't an accurate representation at all though, is it? And I don't think it set out to be, especially. The fundamental premise of coffee-supping buddies has been blown out of the water somewhat by a cursory consideration of what the characters' working hours would have been.

Ah, I see your point now, yes.

Is Friends misogynistic?

I can see its not pro-feminist but it doesn't seem to be women-hating.

I was thinking about this last night and what struck me is that people take this far too seriously!

Look at Coronation Street.

Men

• cab drivers
• builders
• bookmakers
• mechanics

Women

• waitresses
• sahms
• pole dancers (Lloyds latest woman - infact he actually said at one point - how her being a PD attracted him to her)
• machinists

Eastenders

Men

• mechanics
• business owners -Ian/Phil/Max
• postMEN
• stall holders - fruit & veg/technial

Women

• cafe staff (even Ian's regular extra is a woman)
• stall holders - fashion/flowers
• launderette workers

Story lines - Jane being unable to conceive (because a MAN shot her)
Ian persuading Lucy to terminate
Glenda having an affair with TWO men

Ronnie swapping babies

My point is, CS & EE isn't real life either. But I don't see anyone saying how anti feminist they are! Or is it because Friends is American? In which case the posters complaining that America gets a bad deal on here, are correct!

You are over analysing it! There is nothing you can do about it now, so why not contact the bosses of the aforementioned programmes & do something about those? Otherwise, to me, it looks like you ARE bashing the American TV producers.

LittleWhiteWolf

I didn't mean to offend anyone on here, so I apologise if you were.

The fact is, that Friends IS NOT a true reflection of life, and people should be aware of that!

It's nothing to do with the American origin of the show. We could have a thread about British soaps- it just so happens that this isn't it.

Different- the causes of 'inhospitable uterus' you mention are associated with age so my point still holds that she probably missed her chance to get pregnant when she was 28

So, to say that, you are implying that only older women suffer infertility? That is on hell of a sweeping statement! And a false one too.

I know plenty of women with endo, and they are mainly in their 20s. Infertility sees no age. Being on mumsnet, you would think you know that!

Just as pointed out, BoF?

Sorry, I don't know what your question is?

It's a shame the bickering derailed this thread a bit, as it was a subject that probably has drawn in a lot of posters who wouldn't usually post on the Feminism board, but who now won't feel able to contribute to the discussion for fear of being told to fuck off.

BoF, no question....the point I was trying to make is that there is NO thread about British soaps, which are still being aired & in which the sexism pointed out on here (about a programme no longer on air) is still very rife.

Why not tackle that, instead of getting hot under the collar about a show that is no longer filmed?

Oh, we're just shooting the breeze about a show that we are all familiar with, and reflecting on how that shaped our attitudes.