Ways the TV series 'Friends' was anti-feminist

[darleneoconnor]

comes from another thread

-There are lots of references to porn, which totally normalises it

• The women are unhealthily skinny
• The 'fat Monica' running joke
• Joey's womanising
• Phoebe being used as a womb for hire
• Monica was riddiculed for dating someone 7 years younger than her but it was ok for Ross to date someone 10 years younger then him
• All the girls' desire to get married (especially Monica's bridzillaness), as opposed to the boys
• the anti-single mother rant Monica had at her wedding
• Rachel's birth was very medicalised and disempowering (but in context of USA healthcare system I suppose)
• Chandler having to be 'taught' how to have a relationship
• Monicas getting slagged off for having 'lots' of lovers
• In the episode where Rachel, Phoebe and Joey make an issue of earning less than the others no-one mentions the gender split
• They do quite gender-specific jobs, Monica/cooking, Joey/acting (which is 2/3 male), Ross/Paleontologist, Phoebe/massuese, Rachel/waitress/fashion buyer, Chandler/IT(?)
• they get a stripper for a stag do then glamourise it by her saying how well she is paid
• Ross's homophobia and his lack of equal parenting of his child
• Monica's obsession with cleaning
• the rich Monica and Chandler adopting the babies of someone too poor to keep them herself
• Chandler pretending to watch tv so he doesn't have to do his fair share of the thanksgiving cooking
• The football game where Rachel is a 'useless' girl, Phoebe flashes her breasts to win a point and Monica is ridiculed for being as competitive as the boys

I'm sure there's more...

It had a happy gay marriage in it.

In the 90s.

In america!

I htink that expecting it to be liberal progressive non-conformist friends about absolutly everything that ever happens in day-to-day life is a bit ott no? Why should it be? Why should all television have a progressive bias?

I think it was waaay less heteronormative than sex and the city.

But, who on the thread said all television should have a progressive bias? We're just having fun discussing it....

I think if you look for anything hard enough in a TVshow you're going to find it. In fact, I'm sure just as many points could be raised that Friends was a feminist show. Now I'm not saying it was at all, just that posters are looking for something in particular.

In particular I don't understand people's complaints about Monica prioritising her husband over her new job....Surely you would expect to be ahead of your partner's job in their priorities? :/

I've not read the whole thread, but I would challenge that the characters' career choices are hugely sexist. OK, Phoebe and Rachel perhaps. But, as others have pointed out, being a chef is either male or gender neutral, at least. Chandler started out in IT procurement and moved into advertising. Procurement and advertising aren't overwhelmingly male by any means. Joey was an actor. I won't challenge the assertion that 2 out of 3 acting jobs are male (I suppose there are lots of war and police films, and people running about being Orcs), but Joey's only good acting job was on a soap opera. I don't think most people would regard that as a stereotypically male career. Ross is a science academic, but it is shown that he works with female staff.

And he always came across as a good Dad to Ben.

Apologies if someone had already pointed this out, but it's only in the uk that Little Women and Good Wives are separate books. In the US they're published as one volume called Little Women, so Rachel isn't wrong when she says Beth dies in it.

Tbh I'm not sure there's evidence to say Ross and Rachel are neglectful parents. I read it more that we were meant to assume a lot of their parenting happened off-stage - just like we didn't see the characters at work that often. It was after a a show focusing on the lives of six adults, not a show about parenting. I always assumed we were meant to think that Ross saw Ben regularly, but if it wasn't relevant to the storyline it wasn't referred to. In the scenes which did feature parenting I thought Ross came across well (and there was s scene implying that Ross was changing all Emma's pooey nappies and Rachel hadn't changed a single one!)

I tried to search for someone who shared the same sentiment, shockingly enough there wasn't.

I agree that Friends has a lot of problems when it comes to gender equality, homophobia, diversity among others but I seriously cannot believe anyone would actually say the adoption storyline was actually sexist. Are you seriously shaming a young, female character who actually had the presence of mind to realize that she was not ready to have a child of her own (and from memory, Erica was never even portrayed as poor) so she decides to give them up for adoption? Now THAT is anti-feminist.

I am certainly not opposed to feminism but I have to say some of the examples cited were inaccurate and/or misleading:

-There are lots of references to porn, which totally normalises it TRUE

• The women are unhealthily skinny TRUE
• The 'fat Monica' running joke TRUE
• Joey's womanising TRUE

• Phoebe being used as a womb for hire - FALSE (and misleading) she made the decision to act as a surrogate for her brother. No money was exchanged so nothing was hired.

• Monica was riddiculed for dating someone 7 years younger than her but it was ok for Ross to date someone 10 years younger then him- (FALSE - Ross was ridiculed openly and often by all his friends about his relationship with Elizabeth to the point where he implores them to stop. what was more disconcerting that she was his student. Monica and co seemed far more concerned about the age differential than the possible abuse of power. For that reason it was anti-feminist.

• All the girls' desire to get married (especially Monica's bridzillaness), as opposed to the boys (FALSE - and anyone who has actually seen the show will be familiar with the long standing joke about Ross always getting married and the shame he feels about his three divorces).

The anti-single mother rant Monica had at her wedding -TRUE
Rachel's birth was very medicalised and disempowering (but in context of USA healthcare system I suppose) - (Unclear - not sure how medication during pregnancy can be considered anti-feminist. Many women are glad of the drugs and choose this over a "natural" birth, you know, painful, like in the bible. Nothing misogynistic in that old notion!

Chandler having to be 'taught' how to have a relationship - TRUE this is probably on a par with Monica's neuroticism, helping to reinforce gender stereotypes.

• Monicas getting slagged off for having 'lots' of lovers (TRUE)

• In the episode where Rachel, Phoebe and Joey make an issue of earning less than the others no-one mentions the gender split (TRUE) and when chandler takes an unpaid internship in advertising leaving Monica as the sole breadwinner, she constantly emasculates him.

• They do quite gender-specific jobs, Monica/cooking, Joey/acting (which is 2/3 male), Ross/Paleontologist, Phoebe/massuese, Rachel/waitress/fashion buyer, Chandler/IT(?) (TRUE - and quite funny that you don't know what chandler does as this is also a running joke throughout the show - it's statistical analysis and data reconfiguration.

• they get a stripper for a stag do then glamourise it by her saying how well she is paid (TRUE - and it's worse, she turns out to be a hooker)

• Ross's homophobia and his lack of equal parenting of his child (Non sequitur - the first one is true and is amplified by the episode with the male nanny. Ross accuses him of being "too in touch with his feminine side" and promptly fires him.

The parenting arrangement is unclear. Ben does spend a lot of time with Ross and he is very active in Emma's life throughout the show. I don't see how these two issues are related.

• Monica's obsession with cleaning (TRUE, and joeys sloth)
• the rich Monica and Chandler adopting the babies of someone too poor to keep them herself (absolutely true)

• Chandler pretending to watch tv so he doesn't have to do his fair share of the thanksgiving cooking (TRUE BUT phoebe is with him)

• The football game where Rachel is a 'useless' girl, Phoebe flashes her breasts to win a point and Monica is ridiculed for being as competitive as the boys (TRUTH)

Why did you reply to a thread from 2011?

To be fair, Friends is always on re-runs, might be fitting to re-run the zombie thread!

Got to give points for effort addressing so many examples.

LoL most hilarious post ever. Not hating, I'm laffing . I wanna be as skinny as Monica who wants to be a cow ?? Bye girl LoL.

Monica was riddiculed for dating someone 7 years younger than her but it was ok for Ross to date someone 10 years younger then him
Who's that relating to?
Only person I can think of she dated younger than herself is '' young Ethan'' and he was underage!!
Her relationship made her a felon in 48 states (her words) whereas Ross' didn't.

I do get what you’re saying and the examples you have called out but as many others have said many times before, it was of it’s time, whether we like it or not, that was life back in the 90s. We have moved on and things still have to keep going a long way. But it was a (sometimes sad) reflection of what was going on back then. But it was funny as hell and I still love it. Just like people, tv shows aren’t one dimensional.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Monica was riddiculed for dating someone 7 years younger than her but it was ok for Ross to date someone 10 years younger then him Who's that relating to? Only person I can think of she dated younger than herself is '' young Ethan'' and he was underage!! Her relationship made her a felon in 48 states (her words) whereas Ross' didn't.

Ross was a lecturer and the relationship was with a student so there was a power dynamic there that wasn't present with Monica and Ethan. Ethan lied about his aged, but then so did Monica.

This is a very zombie thread from a decade ago!

@darleneoconnor

10 series 1994-2004

Yes, I hated the 'abandoned child' aspect. they did the preganacy as a cliffhanger storyline but then the baby disappeared.

There was an episode where Phoebe fulfilled the anti-child stereotype by complaining about the baby crying. (Of course Monica was great with it)

Also there was the one where Monica was going to use a sperm bank and become a single mother but they all talked her out of it. She missed her chance and ended up never having a biological child, but no-one seems to remember this previous incident.

I hate that I know this but both Monica and Chandler had infertility issues so she might not have conceived using a sperm donor anyway.

I always hated how Joey (a lot) and Chandler (sometimes) fetishied lesbians. They thought Ross having a lesbian ex was "hot", they thought that women have naked pillow fights, they make Monica and Rachel kiss to win back their apartment etc etc

I remember being really shocked by all the references to Playboy as I grew up thinking porn was something only dirty old men read, in private!

There was also relatively-common references to "hookers" which I didn't really get at the time but in hindsight, eww.

Ross was a lecturer and the relationship was with a student so there was a power dynamic there that wasn't present with Monica and Ethan. Ethan lied about his aged, but then so did Monica
Yes, Monica lied but as she said, her lie didn't make either of them a criminal.
Both Monica and Ross did get ridiculed though?
Not accurate for the OP to say that it was only Monica was as they took the piss out of Ross something rotten too!
'' When's Elizabeth's birthday? Why? Well, it's just because it's been so long since I've been to Chucky Cheese! ''
'' You tell Elizabeth I want all the boxes of cookies this year! ''
'' She can't come out, why is her homework due? ''
Etc etc
I clearly watch Friends too much ha

Definitely agree that looking back they do seem porn obsessed!

they make Monica and Rachel kiss to win back their apartment

No, Monica and Rachel offered to kiss for one minute so they could keep their apartment as Chandler and Joey had won it in the tournament and they didn't want to give it up.
'' We took our apartment BACK!''
They obviously weren't happy and said they'd come back when they were out and take it back again, that's when they offered to kiss for a minute which the blokes predictably went with

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Definitely agree that looking back they do seem porn obsessed!

It's the days before internet porn though (particularly the early seasons). Porn was more niche then, you'd have to go down to the video store to buy it (if they even stocked it), or you'd have to pay to watch it on some cable channel.

Society is far more porn/sex obsessed now. Plus back in the 90s explicit sex scenes in TV shows were much rarer.

Yes. The attitudes in Friends come across as dated, sexist, homophobic etc now, because that's how things still were in 1996. I haven't watched it since the 90s. I expect I'd find it cringily un-PC in a variety of ways if I watched it now, just like most tv shows from that time.

I do find it odd how some people seem to think that characters shouldn't have flaws though. The comedy lies in making fun of those characters and their behaviour, not in admiring them as perfect people (apart from Rachel's hair maybe ).