Porn - I use it and feel bad - help convince me porn is wrong

[GuiltyPornUser]

Firstly, sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, although I thought it may be the most appropriate. I'm a married man, and I use porn fairly regularly. It's not something I feel has a massive negative effect on my life, but I feel bad about it. I'm not someone who specially goes out of my way to buy porn, (I've never paid for it), but with the internet, it's only ever a few clicks away.

I want to be convinced that it's wrong. I recently read Andrea Dworkin's book on pornography, but it hasn't stopped me. I appreciate that a lot of stuff on the web is very brutal and degrading to women, but a lot of the stuff is less obviously so.

My DW wouldn't be happy with me using porn, and I want to stop. I want to be convinced that it's wrong, and how I go about stopping using porn, when it's so easy to find on the internet.

There may be some here who think porn is acceptable and I'm just suffering from some almost religious guilt.

I'd really welcome some advice here, because my DW could find out one day and I want to stop.

Typing "why porn is bad" into Google returns 25,700 web pages.

So there is plenty of information out there.

Dorothy, I understand where you are coming from. But why are we required to convince the OP that porn is bad and he shouldn't be using it?

While we're on the subject, I know that a lot of men who consider themselves to be nice, thoughtful types (etc) also use porn. Then you dig around a bit and find they aren't actually that nice, because they don't think there's anything wrong with women being abused for their enjoyment.

Porn is all very empowering and a valid career choice (justification) but of course the attitude changes if it involves their mum/sister/friend/girlfriend. I remember reading an article about a student who had become involved in porn, for economic reasons. Her boyfriend's pal spotted her in a film, told the boyfriend, who dumped her.

It's a bit Animal Farm..some women are more equal than others. Or, some women are fit to wanked over but don't deserve to be treated as full human beings.

"I find this threads deeply misogynistic and started by deeply narcissistic men who assume we are going to start cheering them on because they acknowledge women might be human too."

Thank you SGM, for neatly summarising why I find this this thread so disquieting.

flip

I don't think anyone thinks we're required to convince the OP. However, I'm interested in the thrust of your post

You say there's a lot of men (I imagine the majority of men with an internet connection but I don't have stats) who watch porn from time to time. If you asked them "do you think it's ok for women to be abused for your enjoyment", I would guess most would say no. However, it's not always superficially obvious that the women are being abused in porn - many of the anecdotes we read appear after people have left the industry. Many of the girls (I'm aware of Jenna Jameson) are presented as happy confident women.

I'm not saying that they're not being abused, I'm just saying it's not obvious that's the case. The work of people like Dines is still quite obscure and is far outweighed by the thousands of websites that present porn in a positive light.

(disclaimer: I'm not absolving men of the blame here, but quite often the viewers are very much suckers who enticed to part with money)

There's a thread about it here.

Watch with caution it is distressing. Definitely make sure that there are no children around.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1186736-2001-channel-4-documentary-on-porn

Dorothea A look at Wikipedia's entry on Jenna Jameson says this:

"Jameson writes in her autobiography that in October 1990, when she was 16 years old and while the family was living on a cattle ranch in Fromberg, Montana, she was beaten with rocks and gang raped by four boys after a football game at Fromberg High School.[17] The incident began after she attempted to hitchhike home, and that she entered the car of the four boys while believing that she would be driven to her home.[17] She reported being raped a second time while still 16, by "Preacher," her boyfriend Jack's biker uncle.[17] Preacher has denied the rape ever occurred.[19] Rather than tell her father, she left home and moved in with Jack in her first serious relationship.[5][20]"

Not saying that she's not a happy confident woman, but I do wonder if there isn't a female porn star who hasn't been raped/sexually abused before they commence their career?

I agree that men do not like to think they are watching the abuse and rape of women when watching pornography - but I guess they also think two cocks in their own anus would be a pretty neat and painless fit? And if they do think that would be painful for them, why would it not be painful for the woman on screen? Because she's paid for it? Because she's not worth their concern because she's just not human enough? Because she's a dirty whore and deserves it?

That's another reason why I hate the term child pornography. It is not another porn genre ffs to be added to the ever-growing menu of degradation abuse and humiliation filmed for (let's face it) majority male pleasure! It is the rape and sexual abuse of children filmed for the pleasure of sick scum. I wish there was another term for pornography that actually captured anything of its real nature.

Etymologically, pornography denotes; 'the depiction of prostitutes'.

Which is awful when put with the world 'child'.

TheyKnow

I didn't know that about her. However, the point is someone like Jenna Jameson is "presented" as a happy confident woman, which I agree may mask the reality.

"I don't think anyone thinks we're required to convince the OP"

No, it's not compulsory to respond Dorothea, but OP is asking us to convince him that porn use is wrong. If he's that way minded why does he need a bunch of us to convince him - why not just do the research? Plenty of people taking the post at face value have posted links.

I agree with that there's a 'happy hooker' view of porn, that women do it cos they enjoy it; of course there is a big 'pro porn' lobby out there as you say and of course its a great way to make money and so forth.

But then ask them would they like someone they know/care about to be involved..the answer is an emphatic no.

It is watchable computermouse - it was aired on channel 4 after all.

I didn't want to just link to it without a bit of warning though.

Personally, I get my rocks off to watching videos of men being booted in the balls. I know there are all these arguments about some apparent abuses involved in the nut-kicking industry, and how not all the men enjoy it. But since they are being paid for it - or at least I haven't bothered to find out, and have chosen to assume this is the case - and they are smiling through the grimace of agony, I have never considered this a problem in the past.

All you men out there - convince me that there is something amiss with my endless appetite for footage of real live men being clouted roundly in the gonads.

While I'm here, I'm another one who utterly disagrees with David51's analysis of dittany. Like many other posters, I may not always agree with her but - dittany, hello, I'm not going to talk about you - I've found a fair amount of give and take in arguments and you (unlike some others) will apologise/take back remarks if someone counter-argues convincingly. Plus you like Adam Ant so you're fine by me :)

this boils down to

'ok women, convince me for the billionth time that you are human'

nah you're all right chief, i have other things i can be getting on with

hey OP why don't you convince us that you're not a misogynist crunt - i know you say you're not, and i really, y'know want to believe you, but do you think you can spare the shitloads of energy attempting to convince me otherwise?

i must warn you it is v likely to be futile as i intend to carry on believing you are said misogynist crunt anyway

but please don't let that stop you

Hence why I posted my questions to the OP. I wanted him to do some work and explore his own feelings rather than having all the work done for him. I didn't really get a response though.

Indeed

I have a suspicion the reason the OP posted his thread in the Feminism section of MN is because he knew he would get a pasting here.

They say confession is good for the soul? Well, the OP isn't up to confessing to his wife about his use of porn because of his concern for his marriage. The next best thing is to throw himself to the lionesses, so to speak, so he could get some verbal flagellation in the hope that it would help him begin to atone for his port-watching misdeeds.

He needed to work through his guilt, I'm guessing - he wanted to be punished.
Although that's not to discount the narcissm etc. mentioned above - if anything, it reinforces that idea.

Sorry about all the mixed metaphors.

Personally I've found it a highly instructive thread. Although I think the best way to deal with unwanted posters is to totally ignore them, I'm glad you didn't because I've certainly learned a great deal by reading what you've all had to say.

LOL ImmaculadaConcepcion, what with your name and all those implications of catholic guilt, flagellation etc. I now have a vision of the OP as a married Father Ted...

ha ha, HerBex, I was thinking along those lines too. I am now imagining the OP as a post-Catholic thrill seeker (probably educated by the Christian Brothers or a similarly violent order) who enjoys being told off in public by women he imagines as severe but sexy nuns to add spice to his porn use.

Dorothea - I just want to take issue with the assumption that most men with an internet connection use porn. I don't have any statistics either but I get very annoyed when porn users try to universalise their nasty habit. In my experience lots of men don't use porn. I know some do - or many do - but let us be clear that it is pandering to a vested interest to make out that it is numerically irrelevantly few who don't, leading to an implication that it is deviant not to.

Chap comes on, admits to lying to his wife, and using porn that degrades women, but still thinks he's a decent chap. Because everyone does it, don't they?

If you just stop to think about that logic - it's so barking and twisted

How about if I came on here and said that I regularly lie to my husband? And/or if I came on here and said that I indulged in something potentially damaging, say recreational drug use?

You'd tell me in no uncertain terms what an idiot I was. Dittany did well here. If someone acts like a twat, then they need to be told in no uncertain terms. S'what MN's good at.