Article on Motherhood in Guardian

[Blackduck]

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/mar/26/modern-mother-equality-illusion

Have only skim read, but usual comments!

Also in my group of friends the men often take their kids at the night, all the time. We go on girly weekends, we get to go to places and lead our own lives. These 2 girls dont and they could be with us and do stuff with us. I think that is why it grates on me so much. When I know how much they want it but it feels like they wont do anything to change it for whatever reasons. Will that be their lives forever? Will she always just accept that is it? Its those kinds of things that I wonder.

Not here dittany 45% of the population are on minimum wage. I dont know any men or women pulling in more than a quid more than that in whatever job they are doing.

Again that factors in to my class and area but I dont see men and womens wages as an issue for me as here I just know we are all on shit so I see that as more of a class/rich/poor divide issue

Do they? I wish let me know when you find a man with the overtime and bonuses and I will marry him myself lol. Its really not like that here. It is just actually shit wages for the majority and it is crap but its the way it is unfortunately. We all exploited here that I know, they make us work hard for shit with no perks and they know we wont fuck off cause where would we go, but anyway thats a whole other issue.

I am not arguing Dittany. I am just saying that its not something that I have in my life, and my area so I less want to fight that than things that effect me and my area. Such as my friends relationships, class divide etc. Not to say your issues arent true as a country overall, just saying its not my most pressing issue.

'Yes well the money divide is a male/female one. Men are rich, women are poor.'

Men overall may be poor, but men I know here arent any richer than the women so my issue would be why do vital jobs at the bottom, that no one could live without be paid a pittance. When a lot of people work harder, than some of the non jobs closer to the top. I see that as a man and a woman issue relating to my own experiences of working class jobs.

soz men overall may be rich!

Dittany I dont know why you are arguing with me. I was just saying in response to you saying its not out of my reach. I was saying it is here cause its not like that. I am not saying dont fight for it and it isnt an issue I was just saying why it was out of my reach here.

I still want to know how I can make my friends men step up? Thats my main concern and I still dont think I have any concrete ways in how it is achieveable?

I will also add both my husband and me both support the introduction of tax credits, wtcs and minimum wage. Our whole area does without it we would all be up shit creek as we wouldnt be able to live. That benefited men and women here, and most of all families. I will be eternally grateful for that as I benefit from it immensely. It means I can carry on working and provide for my family. It also means employers dont take the pee and pay us to little.

How is it going to change though? My mates boyfriend doesnt think their is a problem, he is living the life of riley. Unless he has some kind of epiphany and realises he is the biggest prick going how will it change?

You are saying she shouldnt change it, its up to him. Well he doesnt want to change it cause he is selfish and it benefits him.

I may not know all the answers and no I havent walked in their shoes but surely she is miserable then her doing something is better than nothing? If she stands her ground and shows him she isnt a doormat. If she shows her kids this is the way it should be so they dont expect little. Surely by women rising up individually it will make a difference. Isnt this how the suffragettes started they said we are going to carry on living like this. Then did something about it themselves, rather than waiting for the men to change their mindset.

I agree with the fact harriet harman did that but I am saying i know many men here in the same situation, maybe not as many in the country but here just as many. So if it ever came to rising up against that I know I would have many men beside me from my area, who have to go through the same thing. I wouldnt say in my area its just a womans issue, as I said numerous occasions I know that isnt the same over the country.

If I said to the men here we are all stuck on minimum wage, in a low wage culture with no perks or benefits but it is entirely a female issue, they would quite rightly laugh in my face. As they are here living it everyday.

I don't think there's much more you can do noodle, you can't change people's behaviour, you can only change your reaction to it.

If your friends' men wont change, then they have 2 choices: refuse to accept the situation, leave and find someone else or stay where they are and accept it.

Maybe they're not as angry about the situation as you are?

Also on a previous note if women all left men who didnt help then there wouldnt be many in relationships. Thats my point, they would. They arent all not going to have relationships with women, not have children etc just cause you arent doing everything in a house. Now if a woman did dump this kind of man, he would move on to his next prey. Plenty more women out there that will put up with it. If no one/or minority put up wih it where would he go? Maybe simplistic but surely a start. If women do stand up against it?

They are seriously miserable lemonmuffin but any man is better than no man ay?

I still doing see Dittany what the future is from your perspective? How are men who are benefitting from this going to want to change? Why would they change (other than cause they love and respect the woman, they arent selfish etc like normal men). If they wont change cause of that what would make them change, how are they going to suddenly start changing en masse?

Also you talk about I havent got the power who has the power to change loads of mens opinions and entire lifestyles?

Cause they are happening in my area. All I am saying is there are many men who do lots with their kids, visibly in the community every day. I see it, I work at a setting myself. It does come because the women and men often both work (thanks to wtcs) and they do opposite shifts. So men do it cause they both work to survive. I never said it was perfect, or that is was a utopia. I am just saying it is more fair than areas where men do long hours and women stay at home.

Of course DV etc happens, rape is less common as is crime in general. Except for maybe antisocial behaviour on the weekend and drug taking. We have a lot of families in shit situations I work to support them. I know plenty of children experiencing very shit childhoods. I feel as strongly about helping them as I do about this issue.

Who will provide social pressure? I do by not being in a relationship that is me doing 100% of everything, I stand up to those men that do this, I talk to the girls who put up with it. Surely more women need to come together and do this? (Before anyone starts kicking off I know I am not the only woman to do this, Im not smug etc) Honest question I want to take action and as of yet I have found no ideas to do this other than women rising up individually against it. Its not the womens fault their are women out there (my friends including) with lovely personalities, fun to be around (when their men arent there grr), wonderful women. Its not their fault but they need to stand and help to change this imo. Sometimes they just care too much but about people who dont care for them. Doesnt make them bad people and I havent said that. Just maybe a bit too accomodating. I dont think that is making it their problem.

dittany - crime is low here. I have been on that crime stats site here. Obviously I can only go off reported things but we are one of the safest places in the UK. (SW)

I know they dont do that dittany. They dont even have sex cause he smokes too much weed/sniff. He has cheated on her a few times when he has been drunk though but mainly snogging.