Really? Is it just me who doesn't get the Daniel Craig drag thing?

[Adair]

James Bond. Hardly most enlightened character.

Dressing up as 'a woman' which as we all know involves long hair, lipstick, high heels and a dress .

So an ad for International Womens Day that doesn't actually feature any women (well, the voiceover - but no-one is mentioning that).

You are right LeningGrad, its not good to debate something that may weaken someones views.

Isolate and indoctrinate.

I'm out.

So, so confused about what you wanted to acheive by posting here, StreetWise

Lenin I agree, does this go back to your 'that person' - 'that group' as sometimes being difficult to reconcile. (I have been agreeing with what you have written in my lurkdom).
Or have I mis-interpreted this?

(You see this is why I lurk and agree or disagree to myself - I'm rubbish at getting what I am thinking across but thank you all for your patience)

Twit, you have made some very good posts. Keep posting, it is very good input.

For what it is worth LeninGrad I engaged in this thread because I was pleased that Adair posted the link and my gut instinct was that is was offensive with the James Bond references and so on.
Anyhow I'm dipping out of this now.

almondlatte, I understood exactly what you meant, and there was no negative intent. I think it has all just been a misunderstanding.

Has anyone read the comments underneath that video? Some of them are disgusting.

almondlatte, I quite liked that Dove video - was it because of the irony you didn't like it? (ie you are so beautiful as you are, but buy our product to make you more beautiful ).

FWiW the can be interpreted as quite aggressive if aimed at other posters/comments, so i think that's where the 'you'll get in trouble!' came in. Just friendly advice.Totally get you didn't mean it that way.

amondlatte my post was supposed to be friendly advice! It wasn't meant to be a threat! on MN is quite an aggressive emoticon - as I explained - and if you are using it wrongly then you are going to get a response to your posts which is not right - as you are trying to say "I'm thinking" but everyone looking at it will take it an entirely different way.

The comments are as you would expect, I guess?

We are cosseted here, easy to forget how the outside sees all of this.

I feel the same way Adair I am interested in what people have to say, but am not as well informed or articulate as they are and I worry about being misconstrued and/or causing offence. I'm still very much at the reading and learning stage.
I enjoy reading your thoughts Lenin (and others of course) and hope you do carry on, although I appreciate that you may not want to.

I find the Dove ad powerful but yes it is an advert, meant to promote their products. But I think it does show how warped the whole cosmetic / celebrity / role stereotypes are pervasive - hence the younger women at the end seeing just the end result of the billboard. It demonstrates the power of advertising which I find scary.

To be honest I am not from the UK, although I live here now and am very very grateful to be living here now - perhaps it is my different cultural understanding.

I certainly have not lived a cosseted life, but I did not find Sardine's comments to be friendly at all, but then I still find swearing offensive and obviously I have misinterpreted the smileys. Anyhow I do not want to take this debate off course any further and do not want to part of the cross fire - so to speak.

Oh and Adair I meant to add that someone had said they had shown the advert that the op posted to their daughter. I think I posted it because I think that would be a useful discussion with daughters - who live in the UK.

I do find some posts on this thread quite aggressive but again it could well be my cultural misunderstanding of the UK.

Do you think it's acceptable that only 5% of reported rapes result in a conviction? There is nothing like such a shit conviction rate for any other crime. Why? Because women are not important in society - it is more important that a tiny number of men don't have their lives turned upside down by a false rape allegation than that women don't have their entire lives, all future relationships, their health, physical and emotional well-being destroyed by being raped

I'm sorry but that is so typical...start to see your own arguement re: Men having it all and you want some unravel so you throw out the rape herring. To ask that question as you have is so fucking stupid and so fucking crass. It devalues, in fact it does more than devalue, it trivialises rape, and that is abhorent.

And I mean that in its truest sense.

almond - i got massively flamed for misuse of the 'hmm' emoticon too i thought it was just a 'hmm' face. (and i 'hmm' a lot). but it is read as 'you're talking bolleaux' on here, so i've revised my usage. it's a common mistake, but you (i) generally only make it once...

i know quite a few mtf trans, (none of them identify with the feminist lobby at all, afaik) and it is more the 'how to' industry that i object to. essentially businesses set up to transform and create a 'woman' by the addition of clothing, make-up, voice classes, movement classes. it's fascinating. the point that society dictates that a woman acts and looks a certain way is nowhere more visible. complete reinforcement of a totally artificially contructed gender binary.

in my head (and i'm aware this is a pretty utopian vision lol) no-one would identify as trans in the future, because there wouldn't be any need. society would be accepting of everyone wherever they found themselves on the gender continuum, whatever they wanted to wear, however they wanted to walk or speak, whether they chose to paint their faces or not. intersex conditions would at least be less traumatic as a result. and there would be no reason to specify gender on most forms. why does it matter? either i am an engineer or i am not. either i wish to claim for parental leave, or i do not.

still haven't checked out daniel craig, though.

but i am going on a hunt for trans- feminists later, though.

Yes, I'm sure you do. Look here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1166130-International-Womens-Day-how-can-we-make-the-world-more-equal/AllOnOnePage#24265935

Yet more trivialisation.

It makes my blood boil

almondlatte I think there are a few misunderstandings!

When I said we were cosseted I meant here on the feminist section in MN - most of the people who post here share similar views ie self-identify as feminists and so the conversation is from that starting point.

The comments under the video clip - some are pretty horrible and some are pretty random and some are just silly - I was trying to say that here in the Mn feminist section we are fairly protected from people like that (very few people come in here and outright say "you're a bunch of dykes" which is one of teh comments under the video) and we need to remember that what feels normal and sane in this section is much of the time completely separate to what is going on in the mainstream outside IYSWIM.

I wasn't trying to be aggressive and I'm sorry if I came off that way. I didn't understand what you meant with your initial and I think it has come from that.

'men having it all and you want some'?

i thought women could have it all? you know, the full time job, the 24/7 childcare, the housework, whilst all men had was the job? that's the problem, sw. i want the men to have it all. and the women.

tch.