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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Really? Is it just me who doesn't get the Daniel Craig drag thing?

262 replies

Adair · 08/03/2011 18:57

James Bond. Hardly most enlightened character.

Dressing up as 'a woman' which as we all know involves long hair, lipstick, high heels and a dress Hmm.

So an ad for International Womens Day that doesn't actually feature any women (well, the voiceover - but no-one is mentioning that).

Confused
OP posts:
FlamingoBingo · 10/03/2011 11:01

Sorry, I don't get you at all, StreetWise! If you disagree with what's being posted, why don't you jump in and debate with us like an adult, instead of posting something unpleasant like 'get a life'?

Why will you have to work longer when you go back to work, be made to feel being a sahm makes you inadequate, your car insurance will cost more just because a group of women on MN don't get the Daniel Craig film for IWD?

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 11:02

The car insurance action was brought by a group of men.
Feminists are all for people being SAHM, they just want it recognised for what it is ie hard work and just as important as going out to work.
I don't see how anyone can argue it's fair that women retire earlier than men TBH.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 11:05

And frankly, on retirement.

Take my parents. My mum does all the housework and "looks after the men". Took a few years out to raise me and my bro and then went part time. Still did all teh housework and looking after on top of that. Retired. Continued to do all the housework and looking after. My dad retired. Now he spends his time on hobbies. My mum spends all the time doing housework and "looking after the men".

Let's at least be honest about this - while women retired from paid work earlier, it didn't mean they stopped working. Women have always worked hard, and continue to do so, it's just not recognised.

Feminists want it recognised, not for all these mountains of unpaid work that women do to just happen invisibly with no-one giving it a second thought.

FlamingoBingo · 10/03/2011 11:06

Ah! I get it now! So she's a patriarchy collaborator and an anti-feminist? She'd like to still be living in the 50s, with a nice rich husband to keep her in pretty dresses and lipstick etc. etc.?

I genuinely didn't get why she was so angry, Sardine, but I think I do now.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 11:06

One big impact of women retiring earlier has been that they have had less earning capacity over their lifetime and their pensions have been fucked.

Woohoo how great.

StreetWiseHotMum · 10/03/2011 11:13

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StreetWiseHotMum · 10/03/2011 11:14

I consider myself rich and my DP as getting the poorer deal.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 11:17

Steetwise I'm not sure what you're talking about.

If you are under the impression that feminism is about not being a SAHM then you are very wrong.

Unless you have been listening to Xenia, obv.

LeninGrad · 10/03/2011 11:17

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 11:19

I think most people on these boards would like a move towards flexibility with work so that families can do what suits them and their personalities.

This would benefit families who would like the man to be able to spend more time at home with the children.

You are arguing against things that no-one has said.

FlamingoBingo · 10/03/2011 11:19

I'm really confused by your posts, though, StreetWise.

I'm glad I can do those things too. I think you're confused about what feminism is.

I don't think most feminists want to be men - far from it! They just want women to be valued in the same way men are, and not in a patronising way either.

Do you think men can't listen and understand and empathise? That's a myth that has been shown over and over not to be true. Unfortunately it's a myth that has been written about over and over again by popular writers of self-help books.

And you're making rather an assumption about me being bitter - I'm not bitter. I'm angry that my work is not valued because it doesn't earn any money - not not valued by my husband or by my family, but by society as a whole. And it's not valued because it's women's work, traditionally. When a man does it, they're pitied or thought of as weird.

FlamingoBingo · 10/03/2011 11:21

Have you read any other threads on here, StreetWise? It might be worth starting you own one to raise your points and try and open your mind to the idea that you might actually be wrong about your assumptions about feminism and feminists.

But please tell me where I'm going wrong with my opinions too, because I do know I'm often wrong and am happy to have my mind changed if I can be persuaded that I've got it wrong.

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 11:21

Or lauded, FB. Praised immensely and described by all and sundry as wonderful.

FlamingoBingo · 10/03/2011 11:21

"The fairer sex" Hmm

FlamingoBingo · 10/03/2011 11:23

SQ - tell me about it! The number of times people stop DH in the street with the girls and remark on how brave/clever he is to be managing. Thankfully, he is fab and says 'it's not that big a deal, my wife does it all the time and she manages!'.

LeninGrad · 10/03/2011 11:25

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FlamingoBingo · 10/03/2011 11:26

Aw, Lenin! You know you're just bitter....

SardineQueen · 10/03/2011 11:27

I don't get the "bitter" thing.

I have a very nice life, thanks Grin

However I open the newspapers and read about girls schools being burnt in Pakistan, about girls and women being sold into the sex trade around the world, about rape being used as a weapon of war, about women being denied basic rights in some countries, and closer to home, about women being raped and abused and finding that there is no chance of justice, and so on and so on and so on and it makes me ANGRY and I want to talk about it to see what can be done. I don't understand what bitterness has to do with any of that.

Jaquelinehyde · 10/03/2011 11:27

StreetWise - Have you watched the video we are discussing on this thread? Have you read through the full conversation, so you have an idea on how different people have interpreted the video? Have you got your own interpretation or opinion on it?

Or have you just come on here to try and create a bunfight? If you have you should at least have the guts and decency to admit it.

StreetWiseHotMum · 10/03/2011 11:28

Please don't try and tell me what I think.

As for value, well if you think your work is not valued then I suggest you find a new partner (if you have one). My DP values what I do, and because I do what I do he can do what he does, and because we are not carrying the baggage of bitterness we can both perform our roles properly. I share in the fruits of his labour as he does mine. That is a partnership, and to try and argue that one half is getting a bigger/better share than the other is fruitless, pointless and worthless. We both get different things out of it, I would like some of his and he would like some of mine but that isn't possible, practical or probable.

almondlatte · 10/03/2011 11:31

SardineQueen I meant it to say that was thinking about it, pondering it if you like the interpretation - like hmmm or ummmm. I read the right hand description on the site, such as smile, grin, wink, shock, hmm, confused and so on.

I don't use the term a "pile of shit" and that is not what I meant.

It appears that I have been using the wrong smiley, my error.

I have tried to explain what I meant by that. I was being genuine.

I don't like your insinuation that I will get in trouble for that and I thought I would just let you know that.

LeninGrad · 10/03/2011 11:32

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LeninGrad · 10/03/2011 11:34

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FlamingoBingo · 10/03/2011 11:34

I just said I don't feel unvalued by my partner, but thanks for the relationship advice Hmm

I'm not going to discuss my private life with you, though.

I'm just querying what you are debating about on this thread. If you could make a coherent argument, it would be helpful so we could discuss it properly. As it is, you're kind of making a non-argument. Do you think that all feminists are in unequal, unsatisfying relationships where their lives are shitter than their partners? If so, then you're very wrong.

My life is fantastic, actually, and, on an individual level, I am lucky enough not to be as affected by the patriarchy as most women. But I am angry for the vast majority of women who are affected adversely by the patriarchy and I am a femninist because I think it's wrong and want it to change.

Do you think it's acceptable that only 5% of reported rapes result in a conviction? There is nothing like such a shit conviction rate for any other crime. Why? Because women are not important in society - it is more important that a tiny number of men don't have their lives turned upside down by a false rape allegation than that women don't have their entire lives, all future relationships, their health, physical and emotional well-being destroyed by being raped.

FlamingoBingo · 10/03/2011 11:35

Lenin - I'm just hanging around til my kids want me to do something with them. It's a bit boring when they all get engaged in some game, but I'll probably give up and go and eat lunch in a bit anyway Grin