What does someone actually mean when they say "I'm not a feminist"?

[TheFeministParent]

For me it means that either:
a) they are a man
b) they think feminist means militant lesbian
c) they think feminism has no relevance.

Also, I do think that many women hold the view that they are feminists by virtue of being women and making their own choices. "Of course I'm a feminist - I believe in equal pay for equal work"

There is more to it than that. And being a feminist is not easy - it means challenging a lot of things that for many women make for an easy life.

I never called myself a feminist until very recently and that was after reading a lot of threads on here. I wonder if for some people it is because it can be quite a painful process to see how bad sexism is. I know I found it difficult.

I started reading threads here, then I read Living Dolls and then all of a sudden sexism was just everywhere for me and I found it a bit overwhelming. If I am honest there was a bit of me that wanted to back away from it because it just all seemed so awful.

I am also still finding my way through it all, there is lots I do not understand or don't know what to think about yet. I do often feel intimidated by other feminists but I am trying to find my own way with it all. I can't ignore it though, I don't know how I didn't see how bad it was before but I am guessing because it was just easier to not see it.

Exactly - you can't just rock up to feminism and then get pissed off with it because it disagrees with your notion of what it is.

Being a feminist does take a bit of effort - primarily having a bit of a think about things and steeping out of patriarchal thinking.

Agree neepsntatties - it is a painful process.

Once the patriarchy blinkers fall from your eyes you just can't help but see the sexism that is so insidious and ubiquitous.

So insidious and ubiquitous that without a bit of feminist analysis it is invisible.

Thanks SGM - I keep meaning to join the book club but don't have a whole lot of time at the moment. I've been wanting to read this book for a while however, so shall try to get my ass in gear.

I can't label myself a Labour supporter because I haven't climbed Mt Everest or have five feet. I s that acceptable? I mean I know I have totally misinterpreted a position, but I can still judge the Labour party, even though I seem to know nothing about it,.

Really Hope...you don't care about rape stats? Quite a vile thing to say, especially given the fact you have a daughter.

HopeForTheBest wrote - "I do not care about rape conviction statistics any more than I care about any other crime conviction statistics"

Does that mean you will not rest until conviction rates are 100% for all crimes?

Or does it mean rape is as bad as credit card fraud?

To be honest all of the women proudly exclaiming that they are not feminists makes me think of the school playground when I loved to tell everyone that I loathed "Bros"..you know it's cool not to follow the gang.

HopeForTheBest wrote - "It seems to be though that feminism goes beyond the prinicple that men and women are equal though"

For example?

Hope do you remember the John Warboys case? Something like 13 women had reported being raped / sexually assaulted to the police in the Sapphire specialist rape unit. Many of them later reported being turned away / laughed at / told that it was not possible for a black cab driver to do that. As a result, he went on to attack scores of women who would otherwise have been unharmed.

The reason the women were turned away was because even the police working in the Sapphire specialist rape unit believed "rape myths" ie there was institutional sexism at work.

In no other crime I can think of (apart from DV maybe) would victims be literally turned away from the police station.

The way the police and CPS handle rape has been criticised in many reports, and yet there is still little appetite to change things, recommendations are never put in place.

When Stephen Lawrence was murdered and the police were found to be institutionally racist, change was effected.

Yet here we have all of these women being raped and nothing changes.

See also the case about a man called Reid - again huge mistakes were made which allowed him to continue his attacks. He could have been stopped but wasn't - the police just weren't interested.

I want to see that changed. And personally I do think that rape is a pretty serious crime - if I find out that police are not investigating things like car thefts or grafitti properly it does not affect me as much as when rape is not investigated properly. And if other crimes are not being investigated properly it is not usually down to entrenched anti-victim attitudes in the officers it's reported to.

Isn't it bad, what happened with Warboys? Do you see that as a bad thing? If not, why not?

" woman in some parts of the world have a shit life because the system they live under believes that women are not equal to men. This is not the case in the UK, nor in any other civilised, Western country."

Funny funny joke!

Because you have to be kidding, yes? Civilised western countries do not objectify women, pay them less, strip them (close to) naked to sell just about anything, have massively disproportionate amount of men in ALL of the top jobs..etc etc?

Sexism is rife, alive and well in the 21st century. Its just so acceptable, even to women, that a lot of it goes un-noticed. We teach our girls that they have gained every equality, when a cursory look around shows this to be untrue.

Maybe some people feel no need to have a label because they feel 'equal'already .I know that my friends and I are all independent financially and emotionally in and out of relationships and the workplace and are content with that.Obviously there is ingrained sexism everywhere but eroding that takes time which is why gradually things have changed which is why I have the life I have.I think the academia of this can sometimes seem aggressive and a bit over the head of your average woman just getting on with it.I am v interested in Dittanys POV and it has alerted me to many things but I am probably one of many who feels things are moving in teh right direction and although it is slow I am not affected enough by the wider political issues to do anything active about it.

As a woman, how can you not care about the way that rape complaints are mishandled though?

Have you seen the thread on here where there were over 1000 posts of women recounting their experiences, the vast majority of them had not gone to the police as they knew there was no point. How is that not a problem? Or is it just not your problem?

Why does someone have to identify themselves as a feminist to care about these things?

Feninism is global though, surely no-one would deny that there are problems around the world when it comes to how women live and are treated?

I find this disconnect between "us" and "them" quite odd TBH - please will read something about a different country and say it's terrible but when something similar happens here everyone says it's not a problem.

I do care but i am not active.I am not proud of this just stating a fact.