What does someone actually mean when they say "I'm not a feminist"?

[TheFeministParent]

For me it means that either:
a) they are a man
b) they think feminist means militant lesbian
c) they think feminism has no relevance.

Thanks LeninGrad, I appreciate the hand, but I really don't want to.
I was part of the 'Women Reclaim The Night' marches on Oxford in the eighties, they were energising and supportive and hopeful. I was with friends who were at various places on their journeys, and we were a very motley crew.
So when I march as an individual, it is a positive and uplifting experience for me, and I don't think it would be the same with a group of strangers, some of whom I would find uncomfortable company.
I'll be there though.

And to continue my thought, I think that's why there are so many arguments on here. Because when people suggest that eg there is no problem with rape in the UK, and it's exactly the same as any other crime, I feel so strongly that that is not right, I can't help but "get in a lather". I suppose the reason there are so many rucks is that there are a lot of people who feel very passionately about this stuff. And are very sure that they are right

And of course we get a lot of arseholes who come over just to stir. Which means that people can lose patience, and sometimes be rather less friendly than they might otherwise be.

Is earwicga a feminist?

"Don't label me" often means "I think I'm far too complex and sophisticated to be categorised by your simplistic category".

Labelling of one's self is usually just as subjective as being labelled others.

Nobody can be entirely defined by a few general labels alone, but if labels are numerous and nuanced enough, labelling can be accurate and functional.

The problem is that "feminism" is a word that means something. A "feminist" is not just a person who believes in equality between men and women - a "feminist" is a person who considers the impact on women as a whole of every decision or action they take in either a personal or political context. So a personal decision that perpetuates a misogynist world view, or supports the patriarchy.

You can't say "well, that's not what I mean by feminism" any more than you can say "Well, that's not what I mean by socialism" or conservatism or any other -ism you care to name.

Sorry - "So a personal decision that perpetuates a misogynist world view, or supports the patriarchy is anti-feminist even if it is a woman that makes it and it is her free choice to make"

seeker I don't expect a club to be perfect before I sign up but what I do want to see as a minimum is more good than bad and a willingness to address the bad.

My difficulty with feminism as a movement is there is a great deal of judging as to who makes the grade - that is at least my experience.

I also dislike the inflexibility. Unless you sign up to the entire manifesto (as set and judged by who?) then you do not qualify. But it is not black and white is it? Your views can be feminist in relation to some issues and not so in relation to others. But I dislike the idea that it is all or nothing. It is unrealistic.

That last post doesn't make much sense as I edited it for length and left out most of my key thought processes - sorry.

By good and bad what I mean very generally and very briefly is that I agree with (most of) the aims of feminism but often dislike the way in which they are achieved. Random idea off top of head is positive discrimination.

On another note entirely I also think rape convictions are pitiful but I think the reasons are so much more basic than society the system is corrupt/misogynistic.

I don't recognize that either, Nancy. Or only as the caricatures that have been used to used to discredit feminism since before the Suffragettes. It really does not reflect my experience.

Nancy I don't think it is about "judging as to who makes the grade", although I can sometimes understand why people might perceive it that way.

I think what happens a lot is that a woman who considers herself a feminist, because she believes in female/male equality, can be challenged on a certain view that, when analysed or challenged, is not actually compatible with the tenets of feminism.

For example, I'm a feminist (and quite a radical one). However I changed my name when I got married. I have reasons why I did this and I could try to argue that they are feminist reasons because I am feminist and a woman. When analysed, it is likely, that my arguments would be shown not to be compatible with feminist tenets. Feminists pointing this out to me are not being judgemental - they are protecting feminism from being watered down from a political moment with beliefs, analysis and aims, to a wishy washy, anything goes, nonpolitical hotch potch.

I see woman after woman take the hump because they have expressed a view that is a bit short on feminists analysis and have been challenged on that. Feminism is pretty black and white really - of course there are different viewpoints within the movement, but the fundamentals are pretty clear.

The 'trap' with feminism is that, by definition, it challenges actions and views that are commonly thought to be right, normal, fair and natural. It is difficult to get your head around feminism sometimes and break away from patriarchal thinking.

Goblinchild wrote - "Or perhaps there's a similar destination in mind for a large number of us, but we are taking different paths to get there."

Many non-feminists say they work for equality of the sexes in other ways outside feminism. I'm struggling with this concept of non-feminists apparently working tirelessly for sex equality by other (labelled or unlabelled) softly softly methods. I don't notice this. Is this another of my possible blind spots? What are these non-feminist egalitarians actually doing in terms of intellectual stimulus, activism, campaigning, lobbying etc? Any examples?

If non-feminist activism for equality is happening then great. Feminism and feminists need all the help we can get.

I know a few feminist posters on this thread have said they are also socialists, but they are still feminists. I recognise the aims of both movements do overlap.

I'm interested in feminism and identify myself as a feminist because it has the stated goal of equality of males and females. Feminism is the only ideology/philosophy/doctrine I know of that works towards equality of the sexes, admittedly imperfectly so far, buy hey feminists are human.

Could the underlying problem for non-feminists be their relationship with the patriarchy? Could it be not wanting to be disliked by the patriarchy even more for being female and a feminist, than they are disliked already for simply being female?

I think for me, by not saying "I am a feminist" I am still able to do what I can for equality, but without having to constantly defend my views to others. (Feminists or not)

Possibly that still makes me a feminist at heart, just by vocalising it I often find that people's preconceptions or own viewpoints on feminism then mean that conversations tend to turn to whether or not I am a real feminist.

What it comes down to is I don't need to say I am a feminist in order to care about equality.