What does someone actually mean when they say "I'm not a feminist"?

[TheFeministParent]

For me it means that either:
a) they are a man
b) they think feminist means militant lesbian
c) they think feminism has no relevance.

[NancyDrewHasaClue]

seeker the outset of this thread is a good example of MN bitching re feminism: a number of woman choose (for various reasons) to not label themselves and are attacked as stupid, uneducated, simpering men pleasers.

In RL I have been told that caring about my appearance is shallow and trivial and goes against feminism.

I have been criticised (and actually formally complained about) by a woman who was very vocally "feminist" because when we sat on an interview panel together I felt that a man was a better candidate for a job.

I have been told the fact that I qualified and worked in a male dominated arena and then gave it up to be a SAHM had "set back feminism". Equally I have been acused of being part of a misoginistic regime by undertaking the same work. Seems you can't win.

I am happy to acknowledge the good that feminism has done. But do I want to be associated with some of the more millitant aspects of the "movement"? No I absolutely do not.

[HopeForTheBest]

And to those who have problems with those who have problems with labels (hahahah! that is a fabulous sentence, no? :o ):

I shall henceforth call myself a feminist. However, as so often aknowledged, feminism encompasses a lot of differing viewpoints, so here, in a nutshell, are mine:

• men and women are equal, but with differing nautral abilities
  

• woman in some parts of the world have a shit life because the system they live under believes that women are not equal to men. This is not the case in the UK, nor in any other civilised, Western country.
  

• I don't "fight for equality" any more than I "fight for animal rights" or indeed anything else I believe in. If I come across an injustice and I can do something about it, I do.
  

• I do not care about rape conviction statistics any more than I care about any other crime conviction statistics
  

• I believe that as a woman, I can achieve pretty much anything that I want that is within my abilities and I have yet to experience any evidence to the contrary.
  

• I also have very mixed views on porn, beautification and sexualisation of women.
  

Is it still ok to call myself a feminist?


I would also like to reply to vesuvia who asked ages ago:

Has the change in your attitude with age been influenced by feeling that you have reached a stage where feminism is of no further use to you in your own life?

Do you think you could ever be a feminist again, to help other women who happen to be less fortunate than yourself?

No, my change in attitude has come about primarily from having a child.
As a young woman, I thought the idea of giving up a career in order to stay home and have children was horrific. Why should it be expected that a woman would do this? Why should women bear the brunt of childcare, of homemaking (for want of a better way of putting it) at the expense of jobs, careers, fun? I could not imagine anyone voluntarily wanting to do this.

And then I got pregnant (unplanned) and knew, immediately and utterly with every breath in my body that I wanted this baby and that this was the single most important thing that would ever happen to me and that I wanted to do it.

Nobody who knew me before can quite believe that I am now a mother and housewife and I love it. I find it exciting, interesting, challenging, more fun than I ever thought possible, deeply satisfying and completely fulfilling.
And I speak as someone who loved her job, loved working and was bloody good at it.

I feel very sad and angry that as a young woman I was led to believe that these feelings were somehow wrong, that going the family-route was the poorer, unenlightend choice of those that knew no better. I wish that feminism had really meant you can do whatever you want rather than you can do what the men do. I wish feminism had celebrated and exhalted what women are and do instead of ignoring that and instead of celebrating and exhalting the achievments of men and holding that up as some sort of goal for us to reach.
(I have put all the in the past tense because that was what I (and my friends) experienced and understood as feminism at that time).

Oh dear. I've written way too much. Congratulations to anyone who made it to the end of that!!!

[msrisotto]

Ok, I used to not be a feminist because a) I hadn't thought about it because b) I didn't think it applied to me because c) I was young, pretty and academically ok, so I was/am probably doing the best a woman can do out of playing along with patriarchy.

I'm only 24 now and haven't, to my knowledge, suffered in my career because I am a woman. However. Objectification of women is everywhere and it is pervasive. When I was 18 I was sexually harassed by the bar manager, almost for the first time, being attractive wasn't fun.

The career I'm entering into is being financially devalued as it becomes more female dominated.

I'm also not so narrow minded as to feel that if i'm ok, there isn't a problem. I don't dispute the stats out there about rape, domestic violence and didn't dispute "The Equality Illusion" I read. After all this, how could I refuse the label of feminist?

[Goblinchild]

Well, that's you told what your label is HopeForTheBest.
So you may think you are a feminist and be willing to say so, but you now face a line of feminist judges who will point out your erroneous assumptions. You are deluded in their eyes. Come and join me in the wonky and unsuitable vegetable basket. I have chocolate.

HopeForTheBest, but expect the worst and keep paddling.

[seeker]

The problem here is that I think people are reactingh against a caricature of feminism, rather than actual feminism.


NAncyDrew, did you see my question about whether you are only prepared to join a movement or a club once it has become perfect? Do you apply the standards you apply to feminism to your political party, religion or golf club?

[Goblinchild]

Well, Hopeforthebest thought she was a member of the club, but has been told by several long-standing members that she isn't. So how does that work out?

[Goblinchild]

Or perhaps there's a similar destination in mind for a large number of us, but we are taking different paths to get there.
And some see the destination as base camp, but others need to get there first before thinking about where next?

Or should only an elite team who have all their badges be allowed to call themselves feminist in public, and the rest of us can just think it?
Yes. I will be going on the Million Women Rise march. No, I will not be with a group.

[ISNT]

I do think that it is fine if people don't "see" the problems - there is no point in shouting.

So for eg the situation with rape in this country - I see that most women don't bother reporting it as they know there is no point, that if they do report it they are reasonably likely to have their report dismissed by the authorities, that their friends and family and wider society are likely to blame them for what was done to them, and that it is very unlikely to get to court. I read the threads on here with women talking about their experiences and how they were treated etc and it's something I get angry and upset about, I want to do something about it, and to talk about it, and help women who are suffering. This is a gendered issue - and as such my concern for it ties in with being a feminists. I am a feminist, I care about rape and that men who want to rape someone or sexually assault them can basically get away with it in the UK, no problem.

I care about other crimes as well, and think they are terrible, but other crimes aren't treated in the same way by society.

That is how I feel. Others do not feel the same way, and do not see things in the same way. It is just another crime, nothing to get in a lather about. That is fine too, although I would disagree with that POV on factual and emotional grounds. But please don't dismiss my concerns, as so often happens on threads on here.