The demonisation of single mothers.

[SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan]

Hi,

I've ended up talking about this in various threads but have never dedicated a thread to it.

So, i'm looking for your thoughts. How do we see this in action? What are the views of single mothers? How are they propagated? Why are they propagated and why do they attract such demonisation?

I'd also like to hear about where you think the feminist vision saw single mothers, did it predict their would be more given the increased freedom women would have in their lives and their ability to leave male partners or choose to not have one without being financially or socially (though that hasn't held true entirely compared to 1960's it's at least possible to live this way) ruined?

Is women being able to have children alone a part of the feminist outcome - if women have more control over their bodies and reproduction surely it was an inevitable outcome? And is it in your mind a positive or negative thing in terms of feminism?

I'm actually going away for a few days now but hope this will attract lots of thoughts for me to read when i get back.

As for me, to put this in context, i am a single mother of a pre school boy. When i found out i was pregnant (unplanned) at 30 i decided that i was happy to be and wanted to keep the baby but that i didn't want to stay in the problematic relationship with the father. Therefore i've been a single parent from the outset.

I have framed this as about single mothers rather than single parents as it is my experience that single fathers are seen very differently, imo as heroes and glorified whereas single mothers get the demonisation treatment in popular culture.

Look forward to reading your thoughts.

There should really be a self censor button until someone reaches adulthood, like a small electric shock which prevents the young mind from expressing ill thought out and immature opinions. Poor BH does sound like many of the boys when I was at school. It's a bit like listening to Otis Ferry, all pomp and no substance. Kind of funny, although I do feel mean for laughing in a patronising way everytime I read one of his posts.

LOL @ Otis Ferry.

TSH...Nothing ever surprises me about your posts, and yet I am always disappointed.

TheShriekingHarpy Mon 06-Dec-10 13:33:19

Amidst all of the pejorative crap (ie "needledick who's lousy in bed and no fun for a woman to be around and therefore gets dumped all the time..)and the facetious, flippant commentary, "poor BH" emerges from this debate in a positive light, unlike so many others.

Its threads like this which lend credence to the idea that MN lis utilised by twats....and intolerant ones at that.

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Oh, so I suppose also those feminists in the 1960's were completely reasonable people... ALL of them, not a single one was unbalanced, overzealous or prejudiced.

You can't seem to make a statement without automatically launching an ad hominem attack simply because you do not happen to agree with me.

I'm sure if every man and every woman followed your example, the world would be a better place because no one would ever have to put up any form of speech that doesn't mirror your political affilations.

You know for a fact that if I said things like you have been saying to me to you in public, at a workplace or in earshot of any witnesses... You would immediately press charges and win a settlement under the current feminist system, I know that in the same situation the police wouldn't even take a statement.

Feminists talk about a pay gap whilst there exists a DEATH gap at work and at home, mostly because men's issues are overlooked in the rush to help the poor, oh so helpless woman. bursts into laughter

The average woman can do almost anything the average man can plus childbirth so I don't see why you still need the protections of institutions like chivalry. I don't expect you to bench 400 pounds and you shouldn't expect yourselve to either.

Work place deaths amongst men have not really fallen to say closer to 50% as you'd expect in a world where any gender can apply for almost any job and record numbers of women are going to work every year. Prostate cancer and prostate cancer funding are neglected and men die on average 7 years earlier despite having to retire later than women.

Men are also offered less services that could help them improve their quality of life and perhaps live a little longer.

LeninGrad Mon 06-Dec-10 14:11:42

TSH, do you really think someone who would surreptitiously administer an abortion pill to a pregnant partner, as BH said he would, comes across in a positive light?

Anyhoo, really don't want to engage any more on this, it's goading and bonkers and I'd rather it wasn't here at all.

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I said if I were first decieved into impreganting the woman in the first place, I would consider it. I'm 100% clear where I stand on unwanted children, if you want a child and I don't... find someone else who is willing to help you raise the kid rather than relying on me to A: stick around and B: pay up. What possible excuse could someone have for going back on their word like that? If I punched 150 holes in my condoms, hid my girlfriend's pills and LIED to her to get her pregnant... I'd probably end up charged with rape and convicted with rape because the woman didn't consent to being mpregnated only to protected sex.

I hope for the best and prepare for the worst because feminists continously abuse their power in the education system, court system and government to have all MRA discussions quashed. Amnesty International pulled a film from their festival because a local women's shelter threatened to launch massive protests if a film about fathers left behind by the current divorce system were picked up by an organization that is supposed to stand for HUMAN rights.

Why is that feminists get TV spots paid for by the government whilst having stuff like this pulled from film festivals? The film was nominated for the friggen finals, yet it was removed from the festival the second a woman took a offense.

Feminists know they've got the better end of the deal now and they want to keep it that way by brushing aside anyone who complains is sterotyped as a woman-hating kiddie fiddlers. I wouldn't blame the men who have copped it the worst if they openly rebelled especially the guys who have been jailed for kids that aren't theirs(proven by dna test by ignored under equitable paternity law in many areas).

I want to move to this feminist utopia where Bill lives. (As long as it is big enough that I never have to see him.)

Can you imagine having a film pulled from a festival the second a woman objects?

bill, are you having a go at TSH? It's hard to tell. Odd, as she was supporting you

Go and have a wank and fuck off Bill, you're annoying. You're too stupid for words, to ignorant for thoughts and frankly too arrogant for breath.

(sorry fellow feminists, but I can't be arsed to even answer such stupidity with him brandishing words like rape and kiddie fiddlers, this person is not 23/25 more like some tosser like Jeffrey Marshall, some flaccid donkey who is a BNP supporter and nearer 65.)

He obviously hasn't noticed that most of the people who rule the world, run global corporations etc. are men and white.

But he has successfully de-railed this thread hasn't he, I think we should ignore all his posts unless they deal with the issues around the demonisation of single mothers.

He's obviously barking bonkers about the idea that women are rushng around fucking unsuspecting innocent men who then get stung for mainteanance. I'm sure there are some, but in Bill's world it's the burning issue of the day, so he's not able to have rational debate and he is taking people's time and energy in a world where time isn't infinite.

Had we but world enough and time, it might not be so wearing...

took the words right out of my mouth re: feminist utopia SSM.

just been trying to catch up on my thread given i started it and then went away for a few days. some really interesting ideas and thoughts then billhicks.

have reported a load of his posts to MN - don't usually but calling women hussies, suggesting forcibly administering abortion drugs to ones partner whilst pretending they were vitamins, accusing lesbians of being scared of penis's because they were nearly raped once and and women who talk of sexual assault as being hysterical little girls who nothing has ever happened to and the word JAPS was all a bit much for me.

is mn really here to entertain 23 year old men with no kids who hate women and recommend assaulting them?

i get there's a very tolerant low intervention philosophy here but there has to be a limit surely? i'd like to see him banned.

Bill Hicks- have you been to see your psychiatrist yet?

I havn't trapped my ex at all. I did take the morning after pill by the way(it was a mutual decision); it didn't work and I was quite happy to continue the pregnancy without his support in any way. I no longer need him. He's a dead end. Like you.

Oh- and I work to pay my way too.

can i just suggest or politely request that if you wish to rant away about the evils of women and feminism that you start a thread of your own rather than contaminate a thread on which feminists are talking about single parenthood.

just a bit of common courtesy.

thread title suggestions, 'aibu to think all women are scheming cunts who send men to war so they can fuck american soldiers?'

'aibu to give my pregnant partner an abortion pill without telling her"

'aibu to state that victims of sexual assault were probably just brushed up against in a corridor once and are being hysterical bitches about it?'

go for your life.

So do we think our generation of single mothers get the same prejudice as our mother's. Afterall I think my Mum's generation (she's 56) would have disappeared and had a baby adopted rather than be a single parent from the off. I also remember my first friend whose parents divorced, I am 36.

Woman who is going to be a single mother soon starting to get nicely demonised on another thread at the mo.

I mean I think that most women would struggle to BF a 2mo when away from the 10 or 12 hours a day.

Sorry wrong thread!

This made me chuckle...

A certain presence on this thread lasted from about midday yesterday to 1 in the morning, he was then absent until 3.30 this afternoon.
Just after school closing time.

I also note that his entire Sunday afternoon was spent venting on mumsnet so I suspect this one-of-a-kind tomboy gf he was raving about is either a figment of his imagination or was out having a life without him.

i wonder if part of it (much of what i've thought about on this topic has been discussed and some really good points made re:reasons) if part of it is to hide the failings of men.

the reality of a father choosing to have zero contact with his child (such as my son's), the reality of of only 2/5's of absent men even paying any financial support for their children, the casual inhumanity of such a reality (i mean inhumanity as in lack of social responisibility, failed socialisation, abandonment of moral standards and what we see as fairly basic values, by men) is too ugly and threatening to society.

blaming the women, demonising the ones who are actually behaving humanely, sticking around, raising their children, making all the sacrifices we do is somehow less threatening? if women are bad uncivilised, immoral creatures it's ok (hell we've always said they were, that's why we have to control them) but if we admit men are then society, civilisation etc is unmasked as a lie.

and now i think this i wonder if that's what the denial of rape and victim blaming is all about too.

Santa I think that's a really good point.

If we blame women, that is less threatening isn't it?

Although, the Daily Mail et al absolutely revel in "our society is gone to hell in a handcart" stuff, they actively like feeling threatened.

So am not sure.

I suppose if you blame women, you can comfort yourself with the notion that once upon a time -between 30 and 50 years ago, that is always the golden time for any society - the world was civilised and ordered, and if only we go back to the way we lived then and the values we had then, everything would be restored to civilisation again.

Whereas if you blame men, you have to admit that there has never been a time of civilised values.

Santa yes that is an excellent point.

it's an exercise in misdirection.

i think the is falling apart is enjoyed, as in propogating fear and trying to control behaviour and hold back change. think it's different to acknowledging the very foundations of it are a lie iyswim.